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 Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...

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SRB1965

SRB1965


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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 9:59 am

Hi,

Lord C had a 37 page (?) booklet printed about the the Zulus - it may have been 'Zulu Army and their Headman', prior to the war starting......so it wasn't a forgone conclusion - the war!

The book (by Fynney) was given to column commanders - how much of the information in would have been filtered down to the company officers?

Would there have been 'staff briefings' or something similar, prior to the commencement of hostilities.

Cheers

Sime


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Frank Allewell

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 11:40 am

Hi Sime
It would become part of what is known as 'Standing Orders', its then up to the officers to look up and take cognisance of. Ive always had a wobble, and been shot down (Not for the first time) about the amount of time Pulleine had with his Battalion and did he in fact know and assimilate them. There is a discussion on the forum, I pitted myself against Julian and it became an interesting discussion. It was Gary I believe that pointed out that Pulleine's defensive position actually matched Chelmsfords orders. Blind luck was my opinion. Very Happy and the defence line was an organis thing that grew as a force of circumstance rather than a predetermined effort. As I say I think I lost the argument.
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rusteze

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Here is some evidence that it got down the food chain. This copy (I believe it to be Isandula's) belonged to a Major although I cannot read the name (Grenfell?). Also the entry in Harold Raugh's bibliography which notes it was published in P'berg - so also available outside of standing orders perhaps.
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Steve Reinstadtler
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Frank Allewell

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Steve wasn't the original written by Bellairs? Chelmsfords instructions to column commanders was a hand written document. Sorry its the lack of water.
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rusteze

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 2:11 pm

It is difficult to know to be honest. Raugh lists a number of titles and editions authored by Fynney, all of which were printed, and seem to be variations on a theme. "The Zulu Army" (13 pages 1878), and then "Zulu Army and Zulu Headmen" (Ist edition plus a second revised edition published in 1879, 25 pages and a map). It is also clear from Isandula's copy that "Zulu Headmen" was also published separately at some point. At this stage in the war Chelmsford had no Intelligence Officers (he didn't see the need) so whether Bellairs cobbled this together based on Fynney's advice and then issued it as standing orders I do not know. Whatever the case, it seems there were a lot of printed versions around.

Steve Reinstadtler
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John Young

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 2:53 pm

Frank,

It would have been issued by William Bellairs through his.office of Deputy Adjutant General. The revised 2nd edition mentioned by Steve above is available as a National Army Museum publication.

Simon,

There were a number of publications issued to the officers. No doubt to use modern parlance they would have cascaded it down to their subordinates.

JY
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 3:11 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
It was Gary I believe that pointed out.......

Yes, it is an argument with Gary that prompted my question......he did cede a point to me, when I said its "raining in Staffordshire"......I thought he might argue the point but he didn''t.....

He employed the 'Pulleine' defence with me as well......

I believe that the Zulu right horn at Isandlwana (or at least the troops moving that direction) would have been recognised for what it was (by at least some of the officers involved) early on - a flanking force.....but the British (already deployed or deploying) did not have the man-power to do anything about it and hoped to drive off the centre (in quick time) and hope to have time to re-deploy.

I maintain that if the chest had been routed or driven off, the left horn held in check (at least), the Zulu right horn would not have been so eager to join battle, when coming over the saddle. Even the reserve, older man with families and something to loose (they had done the hard yards and gone into semi retirement) would not have been so eager to engage (where ever they were)

Casualties (as well as many factors) affect morale and morale wins battles. Also being a state of mind, morale is a very hard to quantify (or reproduce on a wargames table)

It was obviously felt that there was a need for such a publication - part of my failed argument revolved around Melvills quote "these Zulus will 'charge home'......whereby he was distinguishing between the largely skirmishing Xhosa and the Zulus ('charge home' being a recognised military term)....so there must have been some either private/personal research or general discussion in the mess.

The argument was started by Coghill's quote of 'horns of the morning' (first light when the Zulus ideally liked to attack) - sadly for me I was aware of this Zulu term - once again - it indicates to me some research - why not just say the "Zulus like to attack at first light" - he must have specifically spoken to someone familiar with Zulu tactics and their terminology.

Lord C's standing order deployment - cavalry on the flanks, infantry echeloned (or set back), either side of guns, is a classic deployment to avoid being outflanked (the echelon being the important bit)

I just find the idea, strange that if (for whatever reasons) you found yourself in command of column or 'command' - then first thing you had to do was read then instruction manual.....

No doubt as soon as the antidpodean wakes up from his slumber and comes from beneath his 'Steve Smith' duvet set, he will start on me again but hay ho......(I'll just turn off notifications for the forum for a couple of days)......

Does anyone have a transcript of one of these booklets, or is one available on line?

Cheers

Sime


Last edited by SRB1965 on Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 3:12 pm

Sorry John, crossed in the post - I will see if I can get a copy from the NAM.

Simon
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John Young

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptySat Feb 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Simon,

The Naval Military Press have it on their Zulu War list:
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JY
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Herbie




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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyWed Feb 21, 2018 10:31 pm

Some, I got a copy of The Zulu army and Zulu headmen (from NAM) for Christmas. Quite an interesting little booklet although only 4 pages of text on the Zulu army, it includes another 8 pages of tables of info on the various Zulu regiments and 16 pages of tables about the Zulu headmen and indunas. I’ve analysed the info on indunas who may have been at Rorkes Drift and will post my thoughts on the thread I raised previously on that. Regards Phil
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyThu Feb 22, 2018 3:24 am

Hi

Just out of interest (and insomnia) - does anyone know if this kind of booklet/pamphlet was produced before - prior to a military campaign?

Ta

Sime
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Herbie




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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyThu Feb 22, 2018 8:35 am

The NAM booklet is a “2nd edition revised” that appears to nave been printed at least after Ginginlovu, but during the war I believe. Maybe produced for the 2nd invasion? There is a hand written amendment at the end But which is mostly listing headmen present at the ultimatum in Nov 1878.
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyThu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 am

Hi Phil,

I was wondering if there were similar 'booklets' printed about the Cape Wars or Wolseley's Egyptian campaign etc other than just the AZW.

Or was the idea unique to Lord C?

Cheers

simon
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Herbie




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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyThu Mar 01, 2018 9:42 pm

Hi Simon
I dont know whether similar booklets were produced for other wars, but it seems likely that staff officers gathered intelligence on the local enemy for most Victorian wars where possible (whether Zulu, Fuzzy Wuzzys etc) and disseminated this to commanders in some format.

I've had another look through The Zulu army and Zulu headmen and it is certainly only factual information with no guidance at all. Chelmsford's guidance to commanders for the Zulu War must have been issued separately whether via orders or another publication I don't know. For example I've read somewhere that there was guidance given that Zulu units should be treated as cavalry with regard to their movement capability, but there's no mention in this publication.
Phil
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 8:33 am

Hi,

I am beginning to believe that there was no organised 'intel' - just what the officers picked up from locals or from fellow (maybe ex) officers they came in contact with.

Maybe the British Army (or its War Office masters) did not think it was necessary.

I still find it intriguing as to why Lord C felt the need to publish a pamphlet about the Zulu Regiments and its 'headmen'.......is there any info for the Headmen as to their individual loyalty to the king?

Cheers

Simon

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 9:24 am

Simon & Phil,

Chelmsford produced a number of booklets prior to launching the campaign. The major piece was REGULATIONS: FIELD FORCES IN SOUTH AFRICA this in turn was broken into small booklets the one that readily springs to mind for me is GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF NATIVES, FOR THE GUIDANCE OF OFFICERS APPOINTED TO THE NATAL NATIVE CONTINGENT, AND OTHERS WHO MAY HAVE NATIVES PLACED UNDER THEM.  I believe that there was one issued on transport that included the information regarding the flags on the vehicles designating them to their use.

The officers that embarked on the first invasion were informed of Zulu tactics etc., & etc., and as to the composition of Zulu regiments and their command structure.  Hence the use of The Horns of the Buffalo - impondo zankomo on the front cover of The Zulu Army and its subsequent revision.

In my opinion those marched off to engage against the Zulu forces were perhaps the best informed - that is if they had read or adhered to their instructions - troops of the period.

Just my thoughts.

JY
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 9:39 am

Hi John,

The original post was prompted by an argument I had with Gary (90th) about the fact that I believe the British (or at least some of the officers) knew that the force moving West across the front of Cavaye/Mostyns companies, was a flanking force - the Zulu right horn but were powerless to do anything about it, due to the Chest and Left Horn threatening their front (and due to lack of forces available)

Both Melvill and Coghill have been attributed quotes which indicate (to my biased mind) that they were well versed (or at least had some intel) with the methods of the Zulus....."these Zulus will charge home" (as compared to the Xkosha - who did not tend to) and "the horns of the morning" a very specific Zulu phrase for first light....

Well I spose its all 'if buts & maybes'.......but I just like to discuss things....

Cheers

Simon





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John Young

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 10:03 am

Simon,

Given that Nevill Coghill held a Staff position, and that Teignmouth Melvill was his battalion’s adjutant, both would have been more than aware of the tactical publication, in my opinion.

The National Army Museum holds many of the 2nd Baron Lord Chelmsford’s contemporary works and correspondence, I believe the answer as to the number of publications and detail of their contents could be found there. Bill Bellairs and his department would have been responsible for the dissemination of the information to the appropriate officers.

Obviously local knowledge was an asset as well. I would cite Uys; Dunn; Drummond and Longcast as examples.

JY

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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 10:53 am

You get a pretty good picture of the general output of the Intelligence Branch by looking at the products of the Topographical Depot. Although this is not narrative intelligence but maps and plans it nevertheless demonstrates how prolific the War Office was in disseminating intelligence. An entry jumps out at me concerning our old friend Lt Col Henry Hope Crealock who, while not throwing pots, was obviously involved in much daring do. It reads as follows.

"Plan of the action of Pa-Le-Chiao fought between the allied forces on 21 Sept. 1860 by Henry Hope Crealock Lt Col Military Secretary HBM Special Embassy China. A flying sketch done on horseback using a prismatic compass." (Pa-Le-Chiao is a bridge over a canal approximately 12 miles east of Peking - the sketch is now in the British Library).

My admiration for the man has increased significantly over the last couple of weeks!

Steve Reinstadtler
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SRB1965

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 11:00 am

Now, "a sketch done using a prismatic compass on the back of flying horse"....would have been a feat.... Surprised
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rusteze

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Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus...   Lord Cs booklet about the Zulus... EmptyFri Mar 02, 2018 11:40 am

This was The Opium Wars, so he may well have left the ground metaphorically speaking.

Steve
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