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 The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.

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SRB1965
John Young
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John Young

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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Apr 24, 2018 12:32 pm

I think I’ve got it, by George I think I’ve got.

Rather than post this in the other posting I thought it worthy of its own post.

The map appears in Isandhlwana, 22nd January, 1879.  A Narrative, Compiled from Official and Reliable Sources. published in London in 1879 by P. S. King, Parliamentary Bookseller, of Canada Buildings, King Street, Westminster, S. W.  The author of the work is Lieut.-Col. Edward Durnford.

Much of the map is as it appeared in 1880 in The South Africa Campaign of 1879, but there are some obvious differences in the text.

Please see below:

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Private Collection - not for reproduction elsewhere.

Note the additional text below the words ‘reinforced & retired’ that does not appear in Mac’ & Shad’.  Also note the variation in the line there is no additional block ‘N.N. Horse’ as appears in Mac’ & Shad’.  In 1879 the phrase ‘Md. Natives’ is used in the line rather than ‘N.N. Horse’ as the 1880 version.  1879 version has additional text such as ‘Head Quarters’ and ‘Hospital’.

There are other variations between the maps.  The original is already fragile so I am loath to ask for it to be scanned.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed a space between Canada & Buildings. JY)
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Apr 24, 2018 1:15 pm

Hi

Interestingly part of the NNMC retire around the back of Isandlwana. In most versions, they retire down the spur with Mos & Cavaye.

I read something somewhere, on the internet (within the last couple of days) that, some of the NNMC went (back) around the hill to start their recon of the plateau.

Cheers

Sime
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Apr 24, 2018 5:30 pm

Excellent John - extremely rare and I would guess probably not seen before by most people (including me). It is certainly the same map which we now have in Mac and Shad, Hallam Parr, Edward Durnford and The Royal Engineers Journal (all with slightly different labelling or typeface). At the moment, I am speculating that the RE Journal published in June 1879 is the earliest appearance, but I do not know the month of issue of ED's Narrative. Both are certainly earlier than Hallam Parr and Mack and Shad. I don't think ED was the map maker, but do think his research is generally beyond reproach. So who was the source? - we are getting tantalisingly close. Finally, and it may just be fanciful, but I do wonder about ED's use of the word "Narrative" in this obscure title which of course was also used as the title to the official history when it was published in 1881. Not a word I would normally associate with an official history. Edward of course fought long and hard to get that official history changed as it relates to Anthony's "orders" - something I believe he achieved in terms of convincing the army, but not of course the politicians (who saw no mileage in it by the 1890's).  

Steve Reinstadtler
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Apr 24, 2018 7:25 pm

Steve,

Edward’s introduction is dated 17th April 1879, so it is feasible his work pre-dates the R.E. Journal.

I agree Edward cannot be the original draughtsman for map, as he was in the U.K. I strongly suspect the map was drawn by an officer of the Royal Engineers, which doesn’t give us too many suspects to examine - just over a handful were in the region at the time.

Sadly due to the binding of the Edward Durnford pamphlet not all of the text is visible, so it cannot established if the map bears a signature.

JY
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Apr 24, 2018 8:25 pm

Here's another twist in the tale. If I didn't know better date wise, I would have said that this is a very strong contender for the source map (or part of it). But Marter did not complete his sketch until 21 May 1879, which is too late for Durnford's pamphlet (unless of course it got inserted after he had written the foreword). This is on the KDG website, but is it really Marter's I wonder?
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Steve Reinstadtler
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 11:39 pm

The repeated mentions of NNH personnel taking a route behind Isandlwana is intriguing. I wonder how Major Marter was present at the May burial expeditions, and I wonder if he based this off of bodies he found near where Shepstone's cairn is today. This seems to be supported by Brickhill who mentions NNH personnel firing from this position, among the rocks. I'm going out on a limb here... but maybe, just maybe there is a possibility that Shepstone rallied with some of the horsemen to hold the route to safety open for a few more precious minutes.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptySat Mar 06, 2021 10:02 am

Hi,

When AWD arrived in or near the camp - he sent a troop of NNMC (Wyatt Vause?) back to escort the wagons in.

Four troops of NNMC go out with AWD - two up on to the plateau and two across the eastern plain.

I can't seem to recall what Vause's troop did after it arrived with its wagons - I have made a quick search in my books but can't seem to find them - did they reinforce the 24th in the struggle for the plateau defile (north of the hill)?

Vause survived the battle.....

thanks

Simon
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptySun Mar 07, 2021 10:23 am

Could it be possible that those who died with Captain George Shepstone could be some of Vause's troop ?
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyMon Mar 08, 2021 8:56 pm

So, good question on the possible identity of NNH personnel who Brickhill spotted in the area where Shepstone’s body was found. Here are my thoughts on the matter.
C2318 (7FEB79) provides the 27 KIA and 6 WIA for the Amangwane Horse aka Sikali/Zikali Horse. No word on Troop breakdowns, but Davies states this is out of a strength of approx. 157 pax.
No. 1 Troop (Raw): approx. 52 pax
No. 2 Troop (Roberts): approx. 55 pax
No. 3 Troop (Vause): approx. 50 pax
However, in his diary Vause also adds that he lost 30 KIA and 10 WIA which is in excess of the numbers reported in C2318 (unless I’m wildly misreading it OR unless additional survivors trickled in, and his diary estimate was wrong- I think this the most likely explanation). In his accounts, it reads as though his Troop remained task/organized up until they reached the road to Rorke’s Drift, finding it occupied by the Zulus. They then started off cross-country but became scattered.
Brickhill states that “The only attempts at a stand that I know of were the few that followed the Quarter-Master as already stated, and the Basutos who had a narrow escape of being cut off at the crest, but who came through past the General's tents and who shouted to each other and kept up their fire from a few rocks under Isandhlwana.”
I’d suggest that it doesn’t sound like No. 3 Troop was among these NNH personnel, I’d say No. 1 or No. 2 Troop personnel may be a better candidate among the Zikali Horse. Possibly No. 2 as Roberts was killed in action prior to the collapse.

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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: The Source of the Mackinnon & Shadbolt Map discovered    The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 12:38 am

Hi Weekend Warrior
I'm sure you're aware Roberts was seemingly killed by Friendly Artillery fire at the beginning of the battle , as he was making his way from the ridge .
90th
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 12:40 am

Quite so, that was what I was getting at in my final sentence. Although I'm curious as to where this kraal was.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: The Source of the Mackinnon & Shadbolt Map discovered    The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 12:45 am

Hi Weekend Warrior
From memory it was on Mkwene as they were returning to the camp ? .
90th
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 12:47 am

That would be the target reference point I'd expect... I can't recall seeing it on any contemporary maps. I'll have to check Mainwaring.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 1:57 am

Hi Weekend Warrior

So Vause said himself he lost between 30 and 40 thats over half of his No 3 Troop this seems to me it was Vause troops that assisted Shepstone or at the very least many of them, you need to remember the uMcijo regiment ejected a donga full of Basutos this is confirmed by Uguku so you can expect a number of dead in that donga, this happend close to were Roberts became the victim of the guns do you have a breakdown of casualties of all 5 troops Weekend Warrior. Good work.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:03 am

Also one other thing that is very important what time did Vause's troop arrived at camp can anyone elaborate on this please.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:07 am

WeekendWarrior wrote:
Quite so, that was what I was getting at in my final sentence. Although I'm curious as to where this kraal was.



The Kraal belong to a Zulu by the name of Baza it was located at the foot of Mkwene, and you can find it on Mainwearing map.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:13 am

I'll post some notes in full tomorrow, but the official casualty list for all three Troops of the Zikali Horse is less than the number of casualties Vause templated in his diary. This leads me to believe that more of No. 3 Troop survived than the Lt thought when he wrote that entry (ostensibly in the day or two after Isandlwana). Or maybe I'm misreading the casualty roster, I'll humbly admit that possibility! Jackson associates the Amangwane with Zikali.

As for when Vause arrived... he was present for the re-seizure of Mkwene, and then fell back along with Barton, Raw et al. I'll post more detailed notes tomorrow- I'm also trying to timeline this thing.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:15 am

And thank you, good call on Mainwaring. Works perfect for N Battery's initial fire mission.
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:25 am

WeekendWarrior wrote:
I'll post some notes in full tomorrow, but the official casualty list for all three Troops of the Zikali Horse is less than the number of casualties Vause templated in his diary. This leads me to believe that more of No. 3 Troop survived than the Lt thought when he wrote that entry (ostensibly in the day or two after Isandlwana). Or maybe I'm misreading the casualty roster, I'll humbly admit that possibility! Jackson associates the Amangwane with Zikali.

As for when Vause arrived... he was present for the re-seizure of Mkwene, and then fell back along with Barton, Raw et al. I'll post more detailed notes tomorrow- I'm also trying to timeline this thing.


I thought you said above in your previous post Vause in his Diary lost 30 with 10 wounded
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WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 am

As for the Edendale Horse, I have listed 2 KIA with no wounded and for Hlubi's Basutos 1 KIA. I checked England's Sons and Whybra seems to confirm this.
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WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


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Join date : 2017-07-21
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.   The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered. EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:28 am

Correct. The official returns have 27 KIA for the entire Zikhali Horse. Either the official returns or Vause have to be wrong, and I'm inclined to think Vause overestimated the casualties as his men became 'scattered.'

aussie inkosi wrote:
WeekendWarrior wrote:
I'll post some notes in full tomorrow, but the official casualty list for all three Troops of the Zikali Horse is less than the number of casualties Vause templated in his diary. This leads me to believe that more of No. 3 Troop survived than the Lt thought when he wrote that entry (ostensibly in the day or two after Isandlwana). Or maybe I'm misreading the casualty roster, I'll humbly admit that possibility! Jackson associates the Amangwane with Zikali.

As for when Vause arrived... he was present for the re-seizure of Mkwene, and then fell back along with Barton, Raw et al. I'll post more detailed notes tomorrow- I'm also trying to timeline this thing.


I thought you said above in your previous post Vause in his Diary lost 30 with 10 wounded
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The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.
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