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PostSubject: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyFri Sep 11, 2009 10:15 pm

The Zulus were so impressed by his courage that they carried him back up the hill on a shield and laid him by his dead comrades. A sign of great honour by Zulus.

There is no way this was factual, If it is can someone please post or link me to the information which states this happened. This information would only have come from a Zulu account not a British survivor/s.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Sep 26, 2009 12:43 pm

John

On the Rorkesdriftvc Site, I have found the following:-

There is no mention in the film to Capt.Younghusband, who with his men, they made a last stand on the side of Isandlwana. When he went round his soldiers, the Zulus ordered a halt to the attack to allow him to shake hands with his men who he knew were about to die. You can't get more British than that (apart from trying to dress Sgt. Maxfield while the hospital was being attacked at Rorke's Drift). A real token of respect by the Zulus. Younghusband went down the mountain and made a last stand on a waggon. He was eventually shot through the head. The Zulus were impressed enough by his courage that they carried him back up the hill on a shield and laid him by his dead comrades. A sign of great honour by Zulus.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyFri Feb 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Younghusbands Position On The Firing Line.
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PostSubject: Narrative Of The Field Operations Concerning The Zulu War    Capt.Younghusband EmptyFri Mar 02, 2012 1:04 am

Hi Impi ???. Be mindful the postage cost shown is to Aus , so it should be cheaper for you . Salute .

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Hope this is of some help , 9 Quid seems a good price to me .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyFri Mar 02, 2012 7:30 am

The Narative draws heavily on the maps prepared by James and Anstey. Ansteys in particular is based on evidence from Hammer.
Raw, Stafford all participants have placed the NNC in two areas, starting from the foot of the Northern edge of the mountain: Younghusband, 2/3 NNC ( behind them in reserve was Stafford ) Shepstone, F, E, A , the Guns, Wardell ,Dyer, Lonsdale, 2/3 NNC and Pope.

regards
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyFri Mar 02, 2012 10:34 am

Hi all

Ah, this book there, I peeled one, Because it was my favorite book before I buy ES.

Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyTue Apr 24, 2012 10:28 pm

How reliable is this book, are accounts from primary sources or secondary. It was prepared by the intelligence branch of the War Office.
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PostSubject: Narrative Of The Field Operations Concerning The Zulu War    Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 2:21 am

Hi Impi .
I think its a case of if you can get it for under 10 quid do so , it is indeed prepared by the Intelligence Dept by a Capt or Lt Southey or southall ? . I'm not home so cant check his name . The reports are set out in Diary form obviously from accounts
of those who were there , its certainly worth a read but in saying that many other details have also come to light over the years since it was released . Still certainly worth having for the Maps and Charts , also gives a breakdown chart of the expenditure of the war , from memory over 5,000,000 GBP'S. Grab it , its worth reading .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 6:44 am

Ah, this book there, I peeled one, Because it was my favorite book before I buy ES.
Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 2:27 pm

I already have the book, the reason i was asking if it was relaible because it differs from what i have read in other books. One example is " Younghusbands last stand. According to this book, a stand was made, but he didn't charge down the hill. There was a mixture of men from other compaines.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 3:37 pm

Impi

The info on Younghusband charging was learned in 1882 by Mitford, it wouldn't be known about
in 1880.




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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 5:11 pm

This is a book that does not do in romance and mythology, this is his interest.
Salute

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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 6:20 pm

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:
Impi

The info on Younghusband charging was learned in 1882 by Mitford, it wouldn't be known about
in 1880.




Cheers

DB 14
You never cease to amaze me with these little titbits that you come up with, well done.

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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 8:23 pm

Quote :
The info on Younghusband charging was learned in 1882 by Mitford, it wouldn't be known about

So the charge down the hill is based on what Mitford said.
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PostSubject: Narrative Of The Field Operations Concerning The Zulu War    Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 8:35 pm

Hi Impi .
In my previous post I do make mention that many other details have seen the light of day since that book was produced in its day .It appears the '' Younghusband Charge is but one '' there will be more . Mitford states what he was told by the zulu's he met on his trip into zululand after the war . His book is a fascinating read , actually well worth buying or reading from a library . Many on here will verify this statement as I do know many here have the book or have read it . You need to study mo You need to study mo .
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 8:40 pm

Cheers 90th. I have read Mitford book, however I think the account of Younghusbands last stand is more plausible in the Narrative-of-the-field-operations-concerning-the-zulu-war.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 8:53 pm

Impi

This is what happened to Younghusband and his Coy.

We worked round behind Isandhlwana under cover of the long grass and dongas, intending to join with the Ngobamakosi on the " neck" and sweep in upon the camp. Then we saw white men beginning to run away along the road " kwa Jim ; " many of these were cut off and killed, down in the stream which flows through the bottom of the valley. More and more came over, some mounted and some on foot. When they saw that the valley was full of our warriors, they turned to the left and ran off along the side of the hill towards Umzinyati (the Buffalo) ;those who had not got horses were soon overtaken. The Nodwengu pursued the mounted men, numbers of whom were killed among the thorns and dongas, but I heard that some escaped. Our regiment went over into the camp. The ground is high and full of dongas and stones, and the soldiers did not see us till we were right upon them. They fought well a lot of them got up on the steep slope under the cliff behind the camp, and the Zulus could not get at them at all ; they were shot or bayoneted as fast as they came up. At last the soldiers gave a shout and charged down upon us. There was an induna in front of them with a long flashing sword, which he whirled round his head as he ran it must have been made of fire."
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyWed Apr 25, 2012 9:01 pm

See I can't see this happening.

Quote :
At last the soldiers gave a shout and charged down upon us. There was an induna in front of them with a long flashing sword, which he whirled round his head as he ran it must have been made of fire."

Younghusband had the sense to get to the higher ground that's probably why his was the last stand of the day. Ok they may have run out of ammuntion but they still had the better poistion. If they had all been KIA on the ridge that makes sense. But charging down into over-whelming odds doesn't make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 6:40 am

to DB14

With the primary sources from the Zulu, all the vicissitudes of the battle were well known at the time or Rothwell wrote his book, since found Zulu evidence in his book .

Only the author is not writing a heroic novels, he wrote a military report on all the zulu war ...

Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 6:59 am

At some point I would expect Admin to mix this with the Younghusband topic line.


Ive often thought that this quotation from Mitford has been taken out of context, or rather misinterpreted.
The image of this Victorian hero charging down the hill into a packed mass of savages on the saddle is made for the 'Penny Deadfuls' of the time.

If you look carefully at the terrain, from the saddle the hill slopes up a lot. Its not a climbing slope just a stif walking sort of slope. It then flattens out onto a plateau where the Younghusband cairn is. The slope then begins again right up to the sheer rock face, some 50-60 yards behind.

I think that this rock face was actually the site of the stand, backs to the cliff with the Zulu having to stab uphill. For an experienced officer like Younghusband this would be an obvious defence point.

So if there was a charge, and no real reason to doubt the eye witness account from Mitford, then it would have taken place from the rock face down onto the plateau. That would explain the position of the burial cairn on the plateau instead of down on the saddle. In a military sense it would also be logical.

Just a thought

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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 7:53 am

DB14

At Isandhlwana, there are no heroes, just people who are terrorized and this on both sides. Salute

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 8:18 am

Terribly cynical
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 8:24 am

Quote :
At Isandhlwana, there are no heroes, just people who are terrorized and this on both sides.

And innocent people were killed who had nothing to do with the war. Like CTSG great grandad.
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 4:53 pm

No Heros ?

Wassel's actions were truely heroic, or do you disagree ?

Shepard stopping to assist a wounded man on the retreat and paying for it with his life ?

Coghill going back under a heavy enemy fire for Melvill ?

Melvill sticking with Coghill ?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 5:24 pm

This comes from their unconsciousness or a rigid education ...

Salute

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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 5:27 pm

scratch

Education ?

Do you not think it was heroic for Coghill and Wassle turn back under a heavy enemy fire ?



Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptyThu Apr 26, 2012 6:06 pm

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:
Impi

This is what happened to Younghusband and his Coy.

We worked round behind Isandhlwana under cover of the long grass and dongas, intending to join with the Ngobamakosi on the " neck" and sweep in upon the camp. Then we saw white men beginning to run away along the road " kwa Jim ; " many of these were cut off and killed, down in the stream which flows through the bottom of the valley. More and more came over, some mounted and some on foot. When they saw that the valley was full of our warriors, they turned to the left and ran off along the side of the hill towards Umzinyati (the Buffalo) ;those who had not got horses were soon overtaken. The Nodwengu pursued the mounted men, numbers of whom were killed among the thorns and dongas, but I heard that some escaped. Our regiment went over into the camp. The ground is high and full of dongas and stones, and the soldiers did not see us till we were right upon them. They fought well a lot of them got up on the steep slope under the cliff behind the camp, and the Zulus could not get at them at all ; they were shot or bayoneted as fast as they came up. At last the soldiers gave a shout and charged down upon us. There was an induna in front of them with a long flashing sword, which he whirled round his head as he ran it must have been made of fire."

can be read online here (p.94-95)
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 11:27 am

Does no-one else find it strange that Browne doesn't mention any charge from Younghusband ?



Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 11:44 am

I would like to thing that "Cap: Younghusband " and his men stood firm on the higher ground maintaining a good steady fire, when the ammuntion was gone, they fixed bayonets and died where they stood each, man in his place. In other words " Fix Bayonets And Die Like British Soldiers Should" Salute
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PostSubject: Capt Younghusband    Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 12:49 pm

Hi DB .
Question Browne Question . Do you mean '' Maori '' Hamilton - Browne Question If so he was to far away to see to much detail . How or why
would he have mentioned the charge ?? . He wouldnt have seen it due to all the smoke , dust & haze etc etc . Apologies if I have your posting wrong ? .
cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 1:56 pm

90th

Yes i mean Hamilton-Browne. He watched the battle with a field glass and wrote

that the fighting was over in the camp, but that one company, in company square, was
retreating slowly up the hill surrounded by a dense swarm of Zulus.This was Captain Younghusband's
Company. They kept the enemy off as long as their ammunition lasted, then used the bayonet until at
last overcome by numbers they fell in a heap like the brave old British Tommy should
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PostSubject: Capt Younghusband    Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 2:13 pm

Hi DB.
One has to be a little wary of H-B as he was writing his book some 50 yrs after the event - from memory 1928 , happy to be corrected . As I said earlier it may have been very difficult to make out very much detail . If the charge was 10 - 20 yds only
he would probably not even noticed it ! . Does anyone have any idea what distance we are talking about with the charge ??. I would think it wouldnt be a great distance , as they were surrounded , the zulus you'd think wouldnt be a great distance from them especially if they had ran out of ammo - and were holding themselves together with only the Bayonet and Rifle Butt .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 2:15 pm

90th I think your correct in your assumption, that he woud not have had a clear view the smoke would have been to intense.
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Drummer Boy 14

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Capt.Younghusband Empty
PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 3:16 pm

He wrote his memiors in i beleive 1911.

By the time Younghusband was retreating all the other stands were over, there for the ammount
of smoke wouldn't have been as great.
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littlehand

littlehand


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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 5:42 pm

Quote :
there for the ammount of smoke wouldn't have been as great.

Possibly after all they had ran out of ammuntion. Suppiles not coming in.

Looking at the terrain which they would have to charge down, I think is enough to say it didn't take place.
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Capt . Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySat Apr 28, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi DB .
There would have still been plenty of smoke , dust , etc as Isandlwana is a hollow basin surounded by high ground virtually all the way around , it was a calm still day , 32 deg or similar, throw in the eclipse factor and it wouldnt be easy to see any detail of note in my eyes .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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impi

impi


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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySun Apr 29, 2012 8:31 pm

Littlehand. A friend e-mailed this to me.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The white marker on the photo at the end of the slope is where Younghusand and his men were killed. As you can see from the rock face to the carin it des slope. Could this be the slope mentioned in his gallant charge down into the Zulu's.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySun Apr 29, 2012 8:55 pm

Thanks Impi. Good photo. However I would prefer a photo, from the monument facing up towards the rock face or the other way this would then give us some idea of the distance and the type of terrain Younghusbsnd and his men would have cover to get to where they died. The fact that he was pushed all the way along the ridge, also tells us that he was being pursued by the Zulus. It would make more sense to say he was pushed to the point where the marker is where he would have encountered Zulus moving up to cut him off.
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Chard1879

Chard1879


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PostSubject: Re: Capt.Younghusband   Capt.Younghusband EmptySun Apr 29, 2012 10:38 pm

Littlhand. I think the cairn on the high ridge in this photo is Younghusbands last stand.

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