Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra » Zulu "Corps"![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes » Army Pay Department Personnel![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra » Ntshingwayo birth date![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes » Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith's Store/Hotel![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Shaka iLembe![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84 » Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman » Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra » Fairlie's Native Police![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes |
July 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
Arthur Wright
Posts : 28 Join date : 2015-10-25 Age : 58 Location : Port Edward. South Africa
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:48 pm | |
| I am not sure if anyone can assist? Being prone to questioning things, I have noticed that it appears to be generally believed that Wood was acting on Lord Chelmsford's orders when he chose to attack Hlobane.
I would like to verify this.
Does anyone perhaps know where I can obtain a copy of such an order? If, that is, such was actually given.
Many thanks in advance for any assistance in this matter. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:07 pm | |
| Bonjour, I don't know if it's useful but LC wrote in a letter to Wood, Durban 17 March 1879: "If you are in position to make any forward movement the 27th of this month, so that the news of it may reach the neighbourhood of Ekowe about the 29th I think it might have a good effect". Quoted in "Lord Chelmsford's Zululand Campaign 1878-1879", Alan Sutton Publishing Ltd, 1994, pp.127-128. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:12 pm | |
| Hi Arthur Wood had been thinking of Hlobane as early as the 3rd March and Buller had been chomping at the bit to attack Hlobane for a while and even had a go without orders
"...and I did attack it one day without leave but I had only 70 white men and had to leave the strongest part untouched. There are now about a 1000 Zulus there and they are getting cheeky"
on the 12th March Wood writes to Chelmsford and states:- "...I may possibly go forward for a few days to the Temguin, and thence assault Hlobane but this depends of course somewhat on Cetywayo and his movements.."
In a letter to Wood dated the 17th March Chelmsford writes:- "If you are in a position to make any forward movement about the 27th of this month, so that the news of it may reach the neighbourhood of Ekowe about the 29th I think it might have a good effect'
To the best of my knowledge I don't think there was a direct order (unless anyone else on here knows any different) from Chelmsford to Wood telling him to specifically attack Hlobane. Kate |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:32 pm | |
| Huw Jones in "The Boiling Cauldron" has a similar opinion. In addition of Kate's quotes, please take a look pp.253-258. Cheers Frédéric |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:04 pm | |
| In particular, LC enjoined Wood in a note dated 14 March, to "do anything you like with your column, and if you would like to attack the Inhlobana pray do so" (p. 254).
Cheers Frédéric |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:08 pm | |
| Just checking Blood on the Painted Mountain by Mr Lock (page 127) On the 19th March Chelmsford once more wrote to Wood saying:- "I write to say that you are perfectly free and unfettered, and that any offensive operations which you think fit to undertake will not only meet with my approval, but will be heard of by me with pleasure" Kate |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:36 pm | |
| It seems you are right in your opinion even if Wood when he returned to Britain, "maintened that he had attacked Hlobane on Chelmsford's orders". |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:07 pm | |
| mmmm .....now I wonder why Wood claimed that Frederic? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:57 pm | |
| Kate, Minefields... I suppose that the answer to your question depends if you are a supporter of "conspiracy's thesis" for the Hlobane's disaster... For example, Cecil Russell, a scapegoat? Cheers. Frédéric |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:36 am | |
| For such a short war - it seemed to produce a lot of scapegoats.......Chelmsford, Durnford, Russell, Weatherley, Quartermasters (with or without screw drivers), Moriarty, Carey......
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Arthur Wright
Posts : 28 Join date : 2015-10-25 Age : 58 Location : Port Edward. South Africa
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:18 pm | |
| Many thanks for these replies. I shall be going through them over the next few days. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:10 pm | |
| Stephen Manning in "Evelyn Wood VC Pillar of Empire" wrote (p. 111): "Yet one of the these battles was to be a crushing defeat and would reveal a side to Evelyn's character, that of the political survivor, that had not yet been seen before".
He also wrote (p. 127), "Evelyn was also fortunate in that Chelmsford himself was wrilling to accept his share off the blame for the Hlobane defeat. The General was to write to the Duke of Cambridge that, 'I am quite sure that General Wood never have allowed the attack to be made had I not asked him to make a diversion in favor of the column moving forward to relieve Eshowe'". Cheers Frédéric |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | xhosa2000
![xhosa2000](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2147-96.jpg)
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:42 pm | |
| |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | steve.333
Posts : 40 Join date : 2018-05-15 Location : New Zealand
![Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:52 am | |
| From Zulu Frontiersman writings of C G Dennison by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill
Umbeleni was the Induna or chief who with his men wiped out the convoy (at Ntombi River). It was stated that Umbeleni was living, or had moved, on to the Hlobane Mountain, and it appeared that Col. Wood, although instructed by Lord Chelmsford to act purely on the defensive, allowed himself to be persuaded by Col. Buller and Commandant Uys, to attack Umbeleni. Uys had a bitter score to settle against the Zulus for in earlier days he had lost many friends by Zulu treachery. In addition to this his father and two brothers had all been killed by the Zulus. His tent was next to mine in the Kambula camp and shortly after our arrival he told me how he had joined the column, not for love of the English, but rather for an opportunity to avenge those of his family and friends he had lost by the assegais of the Zulu. It would have been better for him had he remained on his farm. As I have stated, Col. Wood was persuaded to attack Umbeleni at Hlobane and here again is the instruction as given in the regimental orders, and signed by our Acting Adjutant B. H. Lys. March 26th 1879 EXTRACT FROM BRIGADE ORDERS All available men of the Frontier Horse, Border Horse and Bakers’ Horse will parade at 8 a.m. for patrol. Each man will carry seventy rounds of ammunition, a blanket and two days’ rations, one day to be of preserved meat. Spare ammunition to be carried by the corps.
This was the type of material that Dennison left out of his original "A Fight to a Finish", 1904 - presumably because Wood was by then "Field Marshal Sir Evelyn Wood, a father-figure of the British army" as stated by Ron Lock |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Chelmsford's Orders to attack Hlobane | |
|
Similar topics | ![+](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |