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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 Wagons at Isandlwana

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4 posters
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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

Wagons at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 8:28 pm

Hello all,

Thank you very much for approving my application to join the forum. Have spent hours reading back through the pages and it is literally like finding a box of treasures!.

I am looking to build some model wagons that would of been used at Isandlawana in particular

- Royal Artillery ammunition wagon
-Hospital wagon (especially the one that made it to fugitives drift)
-Regimental ammunition wagon

Does anyone have any details or even photos of the above? To be honest i am interested in any type of wagon present at Isandlwana for which the details are known.

Very interested in the colours too, would these have been the green or painted a different colour?

I have been looking on google but so far can only find ones related to 1896 and i am not sure if they would of changed much since 1879?

Many thanks, Alex
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8377
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Wagons at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:18 pm

google- iSandlwana photographs. there are some old photos there of the actual wagons there are also sketches made on the battle field.
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timothylrose




Posts : 110
Join date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:25 pm

Might be worth looking at this one "Discovering Horse drawn transport of the British Army" by' D J Smith  (Shire publications)I used to have a copy but cant find it at the minute think it covers most info and at a fiver or so got to be worth a punt
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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:51 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
google- iSandlwana photographs. there are some old photos there of the actual wagons there are also sketches made on the battle field.

Literally 5 minutes after posting this topic i found the topic about the suspected hospital wagon in the Lloyd photograph, whoops.



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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:52 pm

timothylrose wrote:
Might be worth looking at this one "Discovering Horse drawn transport of the British Army" by' D J Smith  (Shire publications)I used to have a copy but cant find it at the minute think it covers most info and at a fiver or so got to be worth a punt

Thank you just ordered it cannot wait
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bill cainan 4




Posts : 8
Join date : 2017-03-16

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi SirGromit

The definitive guide is:
"Treatise on Military Carriages and Other Manufactures of the Royal Carriage Department" 1879. This was reprinted in 2004 by D.P.and G Military Publishers.

As to colours - the ox wagons tended to be a mid green with red wheels (I have come across four surviving wagons in various museums in KZN and ALL of them are in these colours). I suspect that these were the colours of the preservatives available at the time. Most modellers paint them brown - an assumption from the black and white period photos and from watching the films "Zulu" and "Zulu Dawn" !! The British GS Wagon was slate grey.

Bill
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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:02 pm

Hi Bill Thank you very much I will try and track down a copy, sounds very interesting!. You wont remember me but i met you at Penarth a couple of years back i was with Alan Jones.

Just found an 1874 version on google books, would the 1879 version have been much different?.

Do you know if the Regimental ammunition wagon would of been just a GS wagon marked up for ammunition or was there a dedicated type of wagon with a solid enclosed body like the small arms ammunition carts?

Just had a quick look at the google books copy and a lot of information on there, excellent stuff.
Thankyou you also Timothy the DJ Smith book arrived, also excellent.

Thanks, Alex
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timothylrose




Posts : 110
Join date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:20 pm

If you are flush for cash and fancy a bid there is an original one on fleabay at the minute - too rich for my taste [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:51 pm

Wow now that would be something. Unfortunetly i got it in the neck spending a fiver on a book spending 100 would probably put me under the patio Very Happy
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bill cainan 4




Posts : 8
Join date : 2017-03-16

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 10:25 pm

Hi Alex

A small world - if you were with Alan Jones at Penarth, I'm presuming you are "local" ? Send me a PM and we'll arrange a meetup after the lockdown ends.

The 1874 treatise is not substantially different from the 1879 one in respect to wagons (I have both !!).

Can you define by what you mean "Regimental Ammunition Wagon" ? In the AZW an Infantry Battalion had 21 ox drawn wagons: 1 x HQ wagon, 4 x ration wagons, 16 x Company wagons (2 to each of the 8 companies). Of the two Company wagons, one carried the reserve ammunition and rations, the second wagon carried tents, tools, tinned rations and the mens' packs. If the Companies were fighting together as part of a Battalion then the Company ammunition wagons could be grouped together under the Battalion QM.

Hope that helps ?

Bill
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SirGromit




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon May 25, 2020 9:25 am

Hi Bill im not sure where i got that from i had it in my head there would of been a purpose built wagon for the 24th's ammunition. Many thanks for the info that does help Very Happy
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