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Film Zulu Dawn quote: “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
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» Henry William Longcast, Interpreter.
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 9:29 am by John Young

» Officers of the 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment circa 1868
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» HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties
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» Famous death?
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» N/5 Battery RA at Isandlwana
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 10:20 am by SRB1965

» The Pickets on Mkwene
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 11:30 am by Frank Allewell

» Durnford's medical officer
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» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyThu Oct 22, 2020 5:37 pm by Danny1960

» 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, 1875
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Oct 19, 2020 12:29 pm by John Young

» The 'other' fighting clerk - Corporal JH Mayor, N.N.C
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySat Oct 17, 2020 5:07 am by Frank Allewell

» Somerset soldiers killed at Isandhlwana
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Oct 16, 2020 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» "The Wiltshire Regiment 1756-1914"
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySat Oct 10, 2020 4:46 am by kaveman

» The Unknown Warrior Westminster Abbey
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyWed Oct 07, 2020 3:06 pm by ADMIN

» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyTue Oct 06, 2020 2:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant Anthony Kingscote, HMS Tenedos
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Oct 02, 2020 3:31 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Sir Robert Gordon Gilmour
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 4:22 pm by 90th

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 11:27 am by 1879graves

» Lieutenant Frederick Streatfield Pelly, RN
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 4:09 pm by 1879graves

» KEYNSHAMLIGHTHORSE GRAVES WEBSITE
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 am by ADMIN

» Regimental numbers
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 12:55 pm by Frank Allewell

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 am by Julian Whybra

» Colour of Lord Chelsmford eyes
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 8:05 am by Simonsole

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

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 Wagons at Isandlwana

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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

Wagons at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 8:28 pm

Hello all,

Thank you very much for approving my application to join the forum. Have spent hours reading back through the pages and it is literally like finding a box of treasures!.

I am looking to build some model wagons that would of been used at Isandlawana in particular

- Royal Artillery ammunition wagon
-Hospital wagon (especially the one that made it to fugitives drift)
-Regimental ammunition wagon

Does anyone have any details or even photos of the above? To be honest i am interested in any type of wagon present at Isandlwana for which the details are known.

Very interested in the colours too, would these have been the green or painted a different colour?

I have been looking on google but so far can only find ones related to 1896 and i am not sure if they would of changed much since 1879?

Many thanks, Alex
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7602
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Wagons at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:18 pm

google- iSandlwana photographs. there are some old photos there of the actual wagons there are also sketches made on the battle field.
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timothylrose



Posts : 79
Join date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:25 pm

Might be worth looking at this one "Discovering Horse drawn transport of the British Army" by' D J Smith  (Shire publications)I used to have a copy but cant find it at the minute think it covers most info and at a fiver or so got to be worth a punt
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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

Wagons at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:51 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
google- iSandlwana photographs. there are some old photos there of the actual wagons there are also sketches made on the battle field.

Literally 5 minutes after posting this topic i found the topic about the suspected hospital wagon in the Lloyd photograph, whoops.



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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 10, 2020 9:52 pm

timothylrose wrote:
Might be worth looking at this one "Discovering Horse drawn transport of the British Army" by' D J Smith  (Shire publications)I used to have a copy but cant find it at the minute think it covers most info and at a fiver or so got to be worth a punt

Thank you just ordered it cannot wait
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bill cainan 4



Posts : 8
Join date : 2017-03-16

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi SirGromit

The definitive guide is:
"Treatise on Military Carriages and Other Manufactures of the Royal Carriage Department" 1879. This was reprinted in 2004 by D.P.and G Military Publishers.

As to colours - the ox wagons tended to be a mid green with red wheels (I have come across four surviving wagons in various museums in KZN and ALL of them are in these colours). I suspect that these were the colours of the preservatives available at the time. Most modellers paint them brown - an assumption from the black and white period photos and from watching the films "Zulu" and "Zulu Dawn" !! The British GS Wagon was slate grey.

Bill
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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:02 pm

Hi Bill Thank you very much I will try and track down a copy, sounds very interesting!. You wont remember me but i met you at Penarth a couple of years back i was with Alan Jones.

Just found an 1874 version on google books, would the 1879 version have been much different?.

Do you know if the Regimental ammunition wagon would of been just a GS wagon marked up for ammunition or was there a dedicated type of wagon with a solid enclosed body like the small arms ammunition carts?

Just had a quick look at the google books copy and a lot of information on there, excellent stuff.
Thankyou you also Timothy the DJ Smith book arrived, also excellent.

Thanks, Alex
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timothylrose



Posts : 79
Join date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:20 pm

If you are flush for cash and fancy a bid there is an original one on fleabay at the minute - too rich for my taste [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 9:51 pm

Wow now that would be something. Unfortunetly i got it in the neck spending a fiver on a book spending 100 would probably put me under the patio Very Happy
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bill cainan 4



Posts : 8
Join date : 2017-03-16

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptySun May 24, 2020 10:25 pm

Hi Alex

A small world - if you were with Alan Jones at Penarth, I'm presuming you are "local" ? Send me a PM and we'll arrange a meetup after the lockdown ends.

The 1874 treatise is not substantially different from the 1879 one in respect to wagons (I have both !!).

Can you define by what you mean "Regimental Ammunition Wagon" ? In the AZW an Infantry Battalion had 21 ox drawn wagons: 1 x HQ wagon, 4 x ration wagons, 16 x Company wagons (2 to each of the 8 companies). Of the two Company wagons, one carried the reserve ammunition and rations, the second wagon carried tents, tools, tinned rations and the mens' packs. If the Companies were fighting together as part of a Battalion then the Company ammunition wagons could be grouped together under the Battalion QM.

Hope that helps ?

Bill
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SirGromit



Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-05-07

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PostSubject: Re: Wagons at Isandlwana   Wagons at Isandlwana EmptyMon May 25, 2020 9:25 am

Hi Bill im not sure where i got that from i had it in my head there would of been a purpose built wagon for the 24th's ammunition. Many thanks for the info that does help Very Happy
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