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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
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» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
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» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
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» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
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» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
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» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
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» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
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» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
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» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
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» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
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 Would there have been enough wagons.

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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 9:09 pm

This has probably been discussed before. But I will ask anyway if you don’t
Mind.

Would there have been enough wagons to form a defensive laager at Isandlwana.
How is the size of the laager? Worked out. The idea if the Laager formation is to get all the men inside as well as the livestock. But I just don’t think there would have been enough wagons to achieve this; which would have meant some of the men would have been outside the Laager

The Battle of Blood River where 464 Boers under the command of Andries Pretorius defeated more than 10,000 Zulu. The defensive laager worked but there were a lot more wagons.

So would it have been worthwhile forming a laager at Isandlwana.
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 9:20 pm

That’s a good question John. There would have been no point if it did not serve the purpose. I don’t know how many wagons were actually at Isandlwana. Hopefully someone will know. I have seen a photo of the aftermath at Isandlwana with wagon at the foot of the mountain. But there weren’t that many wagons there. Unless some had been taken back to Rorke’s Drift before the photo was taken.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Join date : 2009-04-24

Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 9:33 pm

Isandlwana appeared appropriate,The area seemed sufficient to contain the large force of approximately 4 313 men, 2 747 British troops and 2 566 or so Natal Native Contingent. In addition there was space for the large wagon park at the saddle, for the 220 wagons, 82 carts, 346 conductors, room for 1 500 oxen, hundreds of mules and horses, and indeed the whole camp extended for 900 yards, with units spaced at a greater distance at the base of the Nqutu escarpment.
2 500 men left the camp with Col Glyn on the morning of the 22nd January, 1879; thus only 1 800 men remained in the camp for its defence.

There were not sufficient wagons to contain the large numbers of men, oxen, horses, and mules. So it would have been a pointless exercise.
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old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1096
Join date : 2009-01-14
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Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 9:46 pm

Littlehand. Don’t forget the Zulus themselves were using the wagons for days after removing their dead, so I doubt that the photo gives a true image of all the wagons.

Can you post this photo or post a link to it.
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littlehand

littlehand

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Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 10:34 pm

Thanks for that Old H.
Ref: the Photo. Not sure I can. The photo is in a book. I will try and take a photograph it, but not sure if it will be of good quality.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2583
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Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 10:40 pm

Old H.

Here's a link to a website. But the Image is not that clear, I hoping this is the one Littl Hand is talking about.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1096
Join date : 2009-01-14
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Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyWed Jul 15, 2009 11:21 pm

CTSG. Thanks for the link. But I can't really see the detail, even with me glasses on.
Lets see if Littlehand can confirm, that is the photo in-question. If it is I would like to see a larger version.
also would like to know how long after Isandhlwana, it was taken. was it days, weeks, months.
I also wonder just how far apart the wagons were when the Zulus got into the camp area.
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Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptyFri Jul 17, 2009 11:32 pm

No laager was formed. As Chelmsford did not see the need for the laager, stating, "It would take a week to make." Even if there had been enought wagons, Chelmsford attitude put pay to it.

S.D
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John

John

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Age : 58
Location : UK

Would there have been enough wagons. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Would there have been enough wagons.   Would there have been enough wagons. EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 12:41 am

Littlehand I have come across the photo inquestion on the net. But is really to small to see the detail. How big is the photo in your book.
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