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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 Strange tales from Isandlwana

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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 848
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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Strange tales from Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 8:29 am

Hi

Jut making conversation here but has anyone every thought about the weirdest 'theory' or tale about Isandlwana from the time (I'm not talking about modern ideas but contemporary ones)?

Indulge me here.....so late on the 22nd Chelmsford returned to the camp, to move on ASAP back across the border, a number of burial parties were later sent.....

One thing I find fascinating is the 'soldiers' view of things.....so one chap finds some playing cards scattered around so says that some British were playing cards at the time of the attack.....

GBH says he saw two of his Natal Native Contingent officers (was it Avery and Holcroft?) 'blacked up' in an attempt to escape......

Presumably the tale of Shepstone handing over 'his' horse to a NNMC trooper must have come from somewhere (the NNMC trooper?)......

A Zulu says he killed a British officer writing a final letter (laundry/shopping list) in his tent - this becomes Pulleine......

Additionally from the Zulu side how many 'battlefield myths' were repeated amongst their army becoming 'facts'........the standard bearer trusting others to protect him, the chap in the cave (obviously linked to the British as the skeleton with the halter round his neck - which is more likely to be one of the of the captives?)

Cheers

Sime
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 10:54 am

Hi Sime
Your last paragraph. Mainwaring found the cave with portion of a uniform and a quantity of spent ammunition. He was also the man that found the corpse with the rope around his neck. He said he was quite suprised to see some time later a painting had been done of the cave as he though he and his travelling companion were the only people that knew of it.
And wasnt it Vereker that handed over his horse? There was a witness to that, cant recall who but I will look it up.
The playing cards is just plain stupid. Smith and Pulleine died around 5 kilometers apart, as far as Im aware nobody mentions loud bellows of 'GIN' ringing around the mountains. Very Happy

Cheers Mate
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 11:47 am

Hi Frank,

Oh yeah it was Vereker who gave his horse, Shepstone was supposedly killed whilst reloading.

The tale of the Last of the 24th was first written in Colenso and Durnfords book about the Zulu War and apparently the Natal Times.

Mainwaring said

I determined one day to explore the Rock for a path leading up to the top…Just as I was ascending a rocky shoulder I came to a small cave. Looking into this I saw the floor strewn with empty cartridge cases, also shreds of a red serge jacket. Evidently some poor 24th man had defended himself and made a last stand here. In searching about 100 yards below I came upon a human skeleton with a rope around the neck.
After fetching our Doctor from the Camp I asked if the remains were those of a white or black man? He replied undoubtedly those of a white man. This incident I believe was known only to the doctor and myself yet strange to say a friend sent me some years after from Dublin a photo of a picture painted by a Dublin Artist entitled ‘The Last of the 24th.’ I have a copy now. But how did this Artist get to know of the subject? The little cave was reproduced exactly as I saw it.


I would say that it would be hard to link a body 100 yards from a cave - with the cave on battlefield full of bodies...

Cheers

Sime
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 12:13 pm

Hi Sime
100 yards below the cave, wherever it is, would possible put that body either on the Younghusband plateau or his line of retreat, not really the battlefield per se. My thoughts of that 'man in a cave' have always centered on his view across the plain watching Chelmsford and hoping he would be rescued. Its unfortunate he wasnt rescued, just think of the tale he could have told. Probably a 100% description of the battle from his aerial viewpoint.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Strange Tales from Isandlwana    Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 1:33 pm

Hi Sime and Frank
I can recall reading somewhere , can't remember where before you ask !..... that Shepstone was found while trying to hide under a body , or bodies ? , or under cover somewhere , can't remember which one it was to be exact .
90th
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 3:35 pm

Frank,

I have always said that had Mel & Cog made in another couple of hundred yards, possibly over the hill and to the NNMC (where ever they were - I know they provided some covering fire from the Natal bank for a while) - I would be discussing the Little Big Horn or the Alamo* with someone else......because most of the mysteries of Isandlwana would not be mysteries.....

90th,

Yeah I have read that somewhere, that he was hiding under a body but got discovered - undoubtedly someone was playing possum (probably a 'Pvt Brown' of the ASC) who got busted, and the Chinese Whispers (amongst the Zulus) turned him into GS.....it could have been him of course - there is no reason why GS died as described by the Zulu (shooting all before him until outsmarted by a quick thinking warrior)

Cheers

Sime

* I am on a couple of such forums but the Americans are so excitable about such things.....
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 4:19 pm

Comes back to this:
"We were told that present during the fighting was a son of Somseu, he fought very bravely, he
killed our people, the others feared to approach him, suddenly there dashed our brother Umtweni
before he could load and killed him."
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:21 pm

Like all things.....(sort of like Heisenbergs Theory of Uncertainty) can you monitor something (or this case question someone) without influencing it (them)?

Was Umtweni's brother being questioned by (or for) 'Old Man Shepstone'....? Did Umtwenis brother have some motive or agenda in saying this?

I'm just being pedantic, mate......not got out much lately.....in the last 9 months the furthest I have been from home is 13 miles.....only been out of town once.....and that was to a place called Rugeley....if you'd ever been to Rugeley, you would understand......

Cheers

Sime
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 6:45 pm

There was a fairly long interview with Umtweni as a young kid. His most famous phrase was "Dead was everything". He spent time with a couple of days of the battle wandering around the
battlefield
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Strange Tales from Isandlwana    Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 12:19 am

Hi Frank and Sime
Frank you have confused Umtweni with Muziwento , it was the boy Muziwento from memory who coined the phrase ' Dead was everything ' after he'd visited Isandlwana , it was Muziwento , who stated it was Umtweni who dashed in and killed Shepstone as he was reloading , he also says Umtweni was later Killed at Hlobane . I haven't read the link you posted , if in case , you have mentioned of Umtweni's demise ? .
90th
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 6:51 am

Quite right, bit of a bitch when senility creeps in. Shocked
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Strange Tales from Isandlwana    Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 pm

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy . Don't be to hard on yourself Frank , lock down probably isn't helping either !? .
90th Salute Joker
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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Strange tales from Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Strange tales from Isandlwana   Strange tales from Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm

I bet lockdown/Cyril's Prohibition is not helping his wine cellar..... Joker
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