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Zulu Dawn:“Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
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 General Buller's statue to be moved?

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 4:57 pm

From Daily Telegraph - 14 January 2021

Exeter City Councillors have voted to move a statue of Victoria Cross-winning general Sir Redvers Buller over connections to “British imperialism”.

The Zulu War veteran’s likeness was erected in Exeter in 1905 with the help of public donations but the city’s current Labour council has backed its relocation because of links to “colonial campaigns”.

Plans to move the statue have met with criticism from historians who argue the Boer War commander was a hero and “political liberal” who should be “lauded” for his military efforts against an oppressive white regime.

The decision to remove the statue, which could cost £25,000, followed a report into the “appropriateness” of keeping the monument outside Exeter College following Black Lives Matter protests.

Devon-born Buller won the Victoria Cross for saving two fellow soldiers in the 1879 Zulu War, but has been criticised for fighting in what the council report termed “campaigns which sought to advance British imperialist interests”.

Councillors heard that because of Buller’s military career the officer's statue was a “reminder of the trauma that colonised countries experienced”.

They also heard that the British Empire was founded “on the premise that other nations and peoples were inferior”, and Buller  “represents the patriarchal structures of empire”.

The statue was therefore deemed inappropriate because it stands outside an educational establishment, Exeter College, which includes “young people from diverse backgrounds”.

Councillors must now seek permission to remove the Buller’s Grade II listed monument, which was paid for by donations from an admiring public despite press vilification for his defeats in the Boer War.

Singling out the once popular general from generations of officers who fought for the Empire has been branded “unfair” by experts.

Historian Andrew Roberts said of his campaigns against the Boers:  “He was fighting against the Afrikaans, who were the vigorous oppressors of the native south African tribes, so if anything he ought to be lauded by the modern PC crowd.”
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 5:59 pm

Can you imagine the outcry if the honking big statues of Shaka were moved - (I dunno if BLM has made it to SA yet Frank)?

When you look back on his life - he wasn't whiter than white (yeah I am aware of the stupidity of that statement).......

Oh well as Dylan (nope not the rabbit of the Magic Roundabout, nor the Welsh writer - the singer guy) said 'the times they are a changin'.....
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 15, 2021 6:38 am

Ohhhhhh yes! Except here they are changing town names, streets and districts. Funny I thought BLM stood for Blatant Lack of Mentality. Probably going to get some flack from that. No No
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 15, 2021 1:25 pm

Frank, if there was any justice left in the world, the flak would be aimed elsewhere.
Regards
Brett
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySat Jan 16, 2021 3:55 pm

I am deeply offended by the decision of Exeter’s Labour Council to spend £25,000 to remove the statue of Redvers Buller V.C. because of his links to colonialism and for fear it might offend students at Exeter College.
Buller was a Victorian soldier – it’s difficult to see how he could have avoided a link to colonialism. He won his V.C. during the Zulu War, fought ostensibly to stop Zulu incursions across the border and to prevent the murder of Natal’s African natives.
During the retreat at Hlobane three times he successfully rode back into the melee to rescue dismounted men, left behind and fighting for their lives. He then rallied the survivors, brought them out to safety.
Perhaps the £25,000 would be better spent on (1) putting up a sign educating the College students about Exeter’s famous son and why the Exonians subscribed to put up the money for the statue and (2) obliging the Labour councillors to attend a re-education programme in the obloquy of political correctness.
I strongly recommend you register your offence via ‘complaints’ on Exeter City Council’s website. It's easy to do and takes less than a minute.


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barry

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PostSubject: Bullers statue   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySun Jan 17, 2021 4:07 am

Hi Julian,

Hear, hear!!. I am also deeply offended by the council proposal.
Perhaps the money could rather be well spent on telling those ''öffended" by the effigy of a famous British General about the FIFO rules.If these dissenters and malcontents, who are probably juvenile guests of the government/tax payer and are at odds with English culture , pray, what are they doing in the country??
in SA we have a trite saying for such dissention, one word, merely,.... Voetsak.


regards

barry


Last edited by barry on Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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RobOats



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySun Jan 17, 2021 11:44 am

The Council have forgotten or ignored the basic principle that Military personnel give effect to political decisions taken by those in Whitehall. They have no say in why any campaign is started or ended.

As a Devonian I can assure you that Exeter is one of the last outposts of Labour Party in the South West of the UK with only 2 MP's who represent constituencies that would probably vote for a donkey with a red ribbon on its tail.
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySun Jan 17, 2021 12:48 pm

Thanks for the heads up Julian
Have registered my complaint this morning.
Watching the chaps video message on the County Council site, he initially seems quite pro it staying put but the second half is a bit more worrying.
He says they want to put it in a more prominent place. Hmmmm.
Kate
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySun Jan 17, 2021 1:23 pm

It seems to me that their main argument is deeply flawed, as are all such arguments; every single Briton alive in the C19 (incl. those in Australia, NZ, etc.) was "linked to colonialism" by virtue of the fact that they lived through those times.
The Council also seems to take as a given the notion that 'colonialism = bad thing' per se in a sort of 1066 And All That version of history.  It absolutely wasn't and brought untold benefits to millions of people around the world.
The re-writing of history is now a major industry.  Modern readers have to begin to understand that the revisionist writer does not have a monopoly on the truth.  Re-writing often doesn't even represent a re-interpretation of history  It can simply be propaganda by another name.
We live in a very Orwellian time.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyMon Jan 18, 2021 7:16 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even dear old Winston's place in history is up for deletion.
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyMon Jan 18, 2021 9:29 am

The photographs of Gopal and Andrews reveal that both are beneficiaries of the British Empire.   They are behaving like rebellious and ungrateful children who are out to annoy their parents, which tells us something about their intellect.
Brett
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RobOats



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyMon Jan 18, 2021 5:40 pm

An update; The UK Communities Secretary, Robert Jenrick, is today bringing a Bill to Parliament which will make removal/changes to listed monuments go through a proper legal process and ultimately the Communities Secretary will have the discretion to approve or disapprove the process.
They have also gone as far as saying that all monuments, street names that have already been removed/changed must now be restored at the Council's own expense.
Robert Jenrick described the actions as "cultural vandalism" and the Government opposes any moves to "remove" cultural history.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyTue Jan 19, 2021 6:10 am

Great news! Hopefully, the increasing numbers of people trying to rewrite British history will now go back to playing with their toys.
Brett
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyTue Jan 19, 2021 4:15 pm

Reply from Exeter council:-

Good morning,
Many thanks for your email.
No decision to remove the statue has been taken.
If a planning application proceeds, it would require a formal consultation process to make sure views are taken into account. It would then also require another act by Council. Any formal representation should be made as part of any planning process.
It would also require funding – of which none has been identified.
You can find the statement and video here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
We are installing signs should Council agree over the next few weeks.
Kind regards
Jon-Paul Hedge
Director
Exeter City Council

I'm assuming this is a set format standard reply.
Kate
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyTue Jan 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Hi Kate

I received the same reply Rolling Eyes

Andy
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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyTue Jan 19, 2021 7:05 pm

Click Here
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 10:00 am

Ditto
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 12:10 pm

Hi Andy
Yes I think its just a generic, automated reply to everyone who registers a complaint, to show they are open and considerate to different points of view. Wether they are actually read and considered  is a different matter altogether. Rolling Eyes
Kate
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 12:30 pm

Damn Kate you just ruined my day. There I was thinking that nice man had written a personal letter to me. Very Happy
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 12:34 pm

Frank
If you're feeling isolated and lonely out there on the veld I'm sure we can all write a nice personal letter to you to make up for it.
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Afternoon Frank.
Sorry about that.
As soon as I can get back over I'll buy you a nice cold Milk Stout to make up for it Wink
Kate Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 2:49 pm

First time in 30 years i havent been in Zululand for the anniversary. I really but really have strong feelings about my boycott of chow mein and fried rice. No
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 2:53 pm

Ah Kate, your so sweet, swop it for a Brandy and Coke and ya gotta deal
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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 3:31 pm

I continually have these fantasies; that all these present day so called 'do-gooders' could experience:

1. The march in full-kit from PMB to Helpmekaar.
2. Endure 12 hours behind the barricades at Rorke's Drift in 22/23 January 1879 conditions.

Perhaps they would appreciate history.
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 20, 2021 3:58 pm

Do-gooders? Virtue-signallers I think.
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90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyThu Jan 21, 2021 1:26 am

Hi Gardner1879
Great to see you back , I owe you a stout or two for the Commeline book , hopefully Shane hasn't lost it ! hahahahaha
90th Very Happy Very Happy

Frank as you can't get to the Anniversary I would think Chow Mein and Fried Rice would be a fitting substitute , along with a Brandy and Coke..... or 6 !! Joker Joker . I'm hoping to be over June or later , need to be Jabbed , then see what the protocols will be regarding arriving into SA and coming back here ! .
90th Salute
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyThu Jan 21, 2021 7:26 am

Dont get your hopes up Gary its still pretty bad in KZN and no sign of the Vax as yet, despite what our illustrious and glorious exhalted supreme leaders expouse. All hail Cyril. Suspect
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 22, 2021 4:21 am

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90th

90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 22, 2021 6:54 am

Hi Frank
Ahhhhhh the Lunacy continues !

90th
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 22, 2021 4:20 pm

Hey, hey, watch ya Gary. Good to be back.
Shane will have to get a few more Milk Stouts in. I drank him dry when I was volunteering out there back in March 2020 Salute
It was hot work .....damn hot in fact.
Shane and Ross are a lovely couple and really looked after me. Got back just as the borders were closing.
I've just been looking at some photographs of our January 2019 trip and its BLOODY FRUSTRATING not being able to go back.
Hope to see you out there this year, though Frank's update about the state of affairs over there doesn't sound too good:(  
Kate
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyFri Jan 22, 2021 5:13 pm

Kate,

Milk stouts? I thought you only drunk Newcastle Brown ale!

Joker Joker Joker
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gardner1879

gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySat Jan 23, 2021 5:26 pm

Aaah Newcastle Brown Ale.
Bottle fed as a bairn and now tradionally brewed .....by err Heineken .....in North Yorkshire Rolling Eyes
Kate Joker
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 pm

Kate,

Better a Yorkie than a mak’em or a monkey hanger.

JY
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptySun Jan 24, 2021 12:07 am

Hi Gardner79
Sorry I missed your call , had the phone volume down . Very Happy Very Happy . Listening to ' Africa ' by Toto as I type !
90th Salute
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyMon Jan 25, 2021 10:06 am

90th wrote:
Listening to ' Africa ' by Toto as I type !
90th Salute

I'm not sure that's the sort of thing that you should be putting in the public domain...... Surprised
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyMon Jan 25, 2021 10:56 am

With hurricane Eloise hammering into the bottom of Zululand and flooding everything from Ulundi to the coast and our Aussie mate listens to 'I bless the rains down in Africa'. The bugger has got a sense of humour Simon, macabre but yep its there. Very Happy Very Happy Suspect
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 27, 2021 4:02 am

Hi Frank
Yep , being an Aussie we have a great sense of humour , you'll see how good it is when we play you guys in March .....if it goes ahead and the grounds haven't been washed away ! .
90th Very Happy Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 27, 2021 6:14 am

Should go ahead, they have just had the ladies playing Pakistan and that went of without a hitch, organisation was pretty slick. No spectators of course.
Innoculations are starting to roll out in KZN next week, not enough for the rest of the country.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Jan 27, 2021 10:10 pm

Well we all knew the vaccine roll out wouldn't run smoothly , when it comes to who's in charge there I'm not surprised ! . Good to see the Women's cricket went well , hopefully our series does also . It was certainly a beat up from other countries regarding Paine , he was NEVER , EVER , going to be replaced , he's there as long as he wants to be , Cricket Australia have a lot of time for Tim Paine , he'll never be removed unless he starts physically beating up our opponents ! hahahahahahaha , mind you ... with a couple of them that isn't such a bad idea ! .
90th Joker Joker
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SRB1965

SRB1965

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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyThu Jan 28, 2021 9:38 am

Yeah, David Warner's moustache proves Aussies have a sense of humour.

In the comedy stakes, I rate it slightly above Barry Humphries but not quite as funny (or smart) as Clive James......

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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1879graves

1879graves

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Location : Devon

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyTue Feb 02, 2021 4:19 pm

UPDATE

Plans to move a statue found to be in an "inappropriate" location because of its proximity to a college could be withdrawn.

A review of the statue of General Sir Redvers Buller in Exeter recommended it was relocated due to the soldier's connection to the British Empire.

But Exeter City Council is being recommended to overturn a decision that would have started the process.

Moving it could soon be against the law, councillors have been told.

The statue stands on the corner of New North Road and Hele Road outside the entrance to Exeter College.

The review found its location was "inappropriate because it is outside an educational establishment, which includes young people from diverse backgrounds".

Councillors are now being asked to consider a new report pointing to government plans for a new law on cultural and historic heritage which will "make clear that historic monuments should be retained and explained", the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS) reported.

It would give Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, Robert Jenrick MP, power to call in any application and ensure the law is followed.

Council leader Phil Bialyk said the authority would no longer be submitting a planning application to relocate the statue but would be addressing the issues that first brought the matter to the attention of councillors.

"There are a number of important recommendations about equality and diversity in our city that we will be taking forward," he added.

Buller served in Canada, China and South Africa between 1859 and 1900.

Exeter City Council will meet on 9 February to discuss the issue.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Feb 03, 2021 1:21 am

Hi Andy
This statement to me is the crux of the whole matter
'' The review found its location was "inappropriate because it is outside an educational establishment, which includes young people from diverse backgrounds"....
I bet you could count on one hand the amount of people from Diverse Backgrounds that .... 1 / have gone and visited the statue !
2/ Read what the plaque states on the said Statue , and the most important factor ..... 3/ Have any actual idea who , and what Buller did in his military career ! , I rest my case . Once again the noisy complaining minority causing problems for the apathetic Majority ! .
90th No No No
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey

Posts : 263
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Location : Kloof, KZN

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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Feb 03, 2021 6:16 am

Well said, 90th!

Regards
Brett
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Feb 03, 2021 9:28 am

Cheers Brett , hope you're keeping well ?
90th . Salute
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey

Posts : 263
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PostSubject: Re: General Buller's statue to be moved?   General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Feb 03, 2021 9:55 am

90th, thank you for asking. I am kept together with string and sealing wax, and in lockdown even when the idiotic rules ruining the country say otherwise.
Brett
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90th

90th

Posts : 10361
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PostSubject: General Buller's statue to be moved    General Buller's statue to be moved? EmptyWed Feb 03, 2021 10:02 am

Well Brett the good thing is you're still here , the alternative isn't that flash !
Cheers
90th Very Happy
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