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Eddie




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PostSubject: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 7:16 pm

When Lord Chelmsfords decided to attack sihayo's Kraal, where Lt Coghill fell off his horse and wrenched his knee in an attempt to catch a fowl. 
It is said, after the battle 2xNNC are killed, and 12 wounded, while one officer and two NCO's had been wounded, the latter were taken to the hospital at Rorke's Drift along with two wounded Zulus.

This could also suggest that this is when the escort party was formed, of which has been hotly debated on these forums.
I know it is suggested otherwise in literature, I am only highlighting the possibility of an alternative view.

If not, who escorted these injured men up to Rorke's Drift, and who is the officer mentioned?  My suggestion: Cpl Schiess and Cpl Mayer, the officer ?

And the Zulus, what would have happened to them?
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 8:27 pm

Eddie,

Can you please provide me with your source for Corporal C. F. Schiess sustaining a wound during the attack on the stronghold of Sihayo kaXongo?

Thanks in anticipation.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 9:22 pm

He had an injury prior to the injury he sustained at Rorke's Drift.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 9:32 pm

Eddie,

Injury or wound? In either case what is your source?

The wounded officer that you asked about was Lieutenant Thomas Purvis, 1st Battalion, 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent who received a severe wound to his arm.

JY
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 9:39 pm

I have it that Schiess was in the hospital suffering from blisters caused by wearing ill-fitting boots.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 9:44 pm

James,

I concur with that.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 9:57 pm

I'm sure I've read somewhere that he had another injury, I will attempt to find it again.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 10:21 pm

Eddie,

Yes you would have read it.  I can think of at least two books in which the authors attribute Schiess’ hospitalisation to a stab wound received on 12th January 1879.

Sadly it was not the case, there is no evidence to support their claim.

Can I suggest that you take a look at the casualty return as submitted by J. N. Crealock as it appears in the London Gazette [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 10:33 pm

Just for your records, Eddie, I believe the corporal you mention was actually named Jesse Handcock Mayor.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 11:33 pm

Timespan, yes he was, thank you.

John, is that on this incident alone, or are you referring to a list of casualties for the whole campaign. Thank for the suggestion.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyWed Sep 14, 2022 11:53 pm

Eddie,

Bottom left of the page just relates to Sihayo’s umuzi.

JY
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90th

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PostSubject: Prisoner Escort    Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 4:23 am

Eddie
Coghill put his knee out on Jan 20th whilst returning from Patrol with Chelmsford and his force , the others in the fowl catching attempt were Melville and Milne , it didn't happen on the day of the Sihayo action which was the 12th Jan .
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 7:54 am

Eddie you may like to see the research done by Lee Stevenson and I on Jesse Mayor.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cheers
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 10:22 am

As to the departure date and movement of the prisoner escort, you might like also to p. 60 et seq. of Studies in the Zulu War IV: The Prisoner Escort at Rorke's Drift.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 11:18 am

90th thank you.
In samilitaryhistory .org which was mentioned in my other thread, I thought I could have sworn I read that it says it occured on the 12th whilst on the advance to Isandlwana. I read also that Shepstone chasing the foe after one encounter also had a stumble and twisted his knee. I will have another read of it.

Frank Thank you.

Julian Thank you
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Prisoner Escort    Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 2:00 pm

Hi Eddie
There has been several errors I've spotted in samilitaryhistory pages over the time without even trying ! , they don't have the 2/4th Regt being in SA ....which they most certainly were ! , I wouldn't be hanging my hat on everything that's been written on their pages ! .
90th Salute
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 2:26 pm

90th
Only several?
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Prisoner Escort    Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 3:37 pm

Hi JW
That's about all I remember spotting , I never go there ! Very Happy , as you can plainly see why ! .
90th Salute
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 5:07 pm

Thank you 90th I will keep that in mind. I came across the article in an old post by Dave, under the heading "George Shepstones Death". Where he used it to show the movements on the battlefield at Isandlwana.
What's printed in the article is there, right or wrong. The reason for my post was to assertain wether this was the point in which the prisoner escort was formed. The mention of injured personnel being taken to Rorke's Drift was a suggestion by me to raise debate on the subject, not to suggest it is as fact (though mentioned in this article) even though there are writings to suggest otherwise.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 5:42 pm

Eddie
It is logical to assume that a prisoner escort was sent back on the 13thor 14th Jany.
One of the escort wrote a letter home on the 18th from Helpmekaar. Another was fined for drunkenness on the 19th. The escort might then have usefully escorted sick men from Helpmekaar to the RD hospital probably on the 20th. A third member of the escort party wrote a letter home on the 20th from RD. In it he lamented the fact he had become ill and would not be able to proceed with the party on the 21st. The escort evidently decided to wait for another day (probably because they became aware they might get a free ride with a waggon convoy for the last 12 miles if they did wait) and thus avoided being massacred at Isandhlwana and instead were in time to join in with the defence of the Drift.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyThu Sep 15, 2022 6:54 pm

Thank you Julian
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyFri Sep 16, 2022 6:38 pm

Julian,

Your post above, now that's what I call evidence.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyFri Sep 16, 2022 9:11 pm

Eddie
It's all in p. 60 et seq. of Studies in the Zulu War IV: The Prisoner Escort at Rorke's Drift.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Prisoner Escort   Prisoner Escort EmptyFri Sep 16, 2022 9:43 pm

Julian thank you.
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