Natal Native Contingent iSandlwana Holcroft Avery Young

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

Natal Witness 18th February 1879
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Kate that's rather a unique find. it's the first time I have seen defence of the them and an explanation of their activities. Nice one.

Subject: NNC Isandlwana Holcroft , Avery and Young Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:57 am

Hi Frank
I've read in a couple of publications that Holcroft & Avery had been given permission to return to the camp due to their failing health , I've also seen in other publications that they ' took off ' without permission ! .
90th

Hi Gary
I would agree there have been differing reports, Kates find seems to put some 'flesh on the bones'.

Cheers

PS Watched the Womans world cup match yesterday, lady by the name of Healy was awesum. Wondered if she was any relation to Ian.

Subject: NNC Isandlwana Holcroft , Avery and Young Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:58 am

Hi Frank
I can't remember where I read that Holcroft and Avery were given Permission to return to the camp , may've been Keith Smith ?
Not sure if you aren't actually sure about Alysa Healey .... she's the Niece of Ian Healy and is married to Mitch Starc . Got to 42 deg here in my suburb today ..... of course it did as we got off the Cruise ship in Melbourne this morning .
90th Very Happy

PS We've just lost our 2nd Wicket in the 2nd Test 2/92 , DAMN just saw that Smith is also out 0 in 2 balls , 1/ 91 , now in the blink of eye 3/93 ! can we get 200 ?? Doubtful !

Last edited by Julian Whybra on Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

ES (9th ed., 2020) p. 11:
"It is often wrongly asserted that these officers (Avery/Holcroft) departed without leave. In fact both, exhausted through dysentery attacks, obtained leave to fall out from their respective C.O.s. See Natal Colonist Correspondent, Letter 8th February 1879, Natal Witness, 18th February 1879."
The discovery was made by Frederic Bomy.

I've since then come across a second reference to their being ill and having to return to camp.

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

"ES (9th ed., 2020) p. 11:
"It is often wrongly asserted that these officers (Avery/Holcroft) departed without leave. In fact both, exhausted through dysentery attacks, obtained leave to fall out from their respective C.O.s. See Natal Colonist Correspondent, Letter 8th February 1879, Natal Witness, 18th February 1879."
The discovery was made by Frederic Bomy."

Not sure why you have repeated this information Julian, isn't that what was written in the article above? scratch

Hi Julian
Can you give me the 2nd reference regarding Holcroft & Avery obtaining permission to head back to Isandlwana ? , I've seen it somewhere over the years but can't remember where ! .
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It's written because the information is not new.
Apart from the above cutting saying they received permission from their respective commanders it has appeared elsewhere and I believe Keith smith did use it.

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

I didn't say it was new.
I just put it on here because I thought it would be interesting for people to read.
scratch

I know you didn't. And it is very interesting for people to read.

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

Nope still confused, so why then did you repeat the information from the original article in your 5.51pm post? scratch

For Frank's information should he cite it in one of his publications in future. Fred is an excellent researcher. Credit where credit's due.

I have mentioned Fred's research abilities and my regard for him in 'Solving the Enigma'. Nothings changed.

Pleased to hear it Frank.

Posts : 3463 Join date : 2021-01-04

Ahhhh so it was for Frank's benefit. You should have said that first time round.
And theres me mistakingly thinking you repeated the information because you couldn't bear the thought that someone else was getting credit for something you already knew. Silly me.
As I said before I'm not claiming it is new. Nor am I trying to steal anyones thunder or commenting on Fred's ability as a researcher.
I just put it on there for the interest of other forum members.
Salute

Well, all right then, since it's your suggestion, silly you.

Hi Julian
I mentioned in an earlier post that Holcroft & Avery both received permission to head back to Isandlwana due to Illness , I also suggested it came from Keith Smith , and you also believe this to be correct , as much as I've looked ( 2 or 3 times !) I can't find any mention of them in ' Studies In The AZW ' or ' Select Documents ; A Zulu War Sourcebook ' , although , they are listed in the index... the page numbers are incorrect , and in the updated ' Dead Was Everything ; Studies In The Anglo Zulu War ' Holcroft & Avery aren't indexed ! . Hopefully you're aware of the quotes whereabouts ? .
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90th
I have been looking for it myself! No luck so far. It's strange we should both have the same recollection. I'll keep looking. Perhaps it wasn't in a publication but in an e-mail he sent me. I'll trawl through them.

Thanks Julian , I also had a quick look in Thompson's Black Soldiers of the Queen , didn't find it there , but it was a quick look , Hamilton - Browne was non to complimentary about them , he obviously didn't give or know of their permissions !?
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I am wondering whether the Natal Colonist correspondent might be Higginson. It was Higginson who exposed Lieut. Young's fake account in a letter to the Witness and he does it here in this reproduced article from the Colonist. And of course, as adjutant, Higginson was in a position to KNOW for certain the information provided on Avery, Holcroft, Young and the battalions' numbers.

Julian
I don't know , with Higginson being at Isandlwana , Avery & Holcroft returning during the evening of the 21st you'd expect they reported to someone ? .
90th

My feeling is that they reported to Higginson as adjutant and would have shown their permits to him - which is how he knew. It's logical.

Yes Julian it makes sense , especially as we're both certain we've previously seen where they were given permission to return .
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