Latest topics | » Colonialism: A Moral LegacyToday at 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra » Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!Today at 11:37 am by lydenburg » Writing adviceTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash » Sergeant W E Warren RA - VeteranTue Mar 19, 2024 9:32 pm by Matthew Turl » Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra » 100,000 posts!Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds » August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan » Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra » Letter of officer during Zulu wars.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra » About the second invasionTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th » Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young » Watford band boys killed at iSandlwanaFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra » Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th » Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997 » What was the distance?Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan » Mrs Henry HookTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny » "With 6 good riflemen"Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper » What was G company supposed to do?Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra » Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William WylieFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young » South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60thFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody » Weatherleys Border Horse FlagThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie » Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-TynteTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg |
March 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. | |
|
+4Mr Greaves 1879graves Dave Chelmsfordthescapegoat 8 posters | Author | Message |
---|
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:14 pm | |
| Here’s another one I came across from the pages of GENUKI. This one is very interesting as he states that the colonel in command shot himself. The Colonel in command was Pulliene. We know there was not enought ammunition getting to the firing line. Maybe Pulliene knew that he had made a mistake. And could not face the fact that he had been the cause of the daister. Or was it Durnford.
1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt.
I am very sorry to tell you that we see very hard times of it out here now. We are on the march all the time and we have not seen a bit of bread this last two months, only biscuits all the time and we are often on the road for two or three days at a stretch, that we don't get coffee or tea, only dry biscuit; it is an awful place for water. Another thing, we have to write with powder and water and I had to pay fourpence for this sheet of paper and envelope... We had a very hard fight for about three hours at a place called Isandhlwana. The Zulus attacked our camp and as soon as we saw them coming, we struck the tents and formed square around the ammunition, and we kept them back for three hours. The General was not with us at the time; he was out somewhere and the colonel that was in command of us (as soon as he saw the Zulus retiring) ordered us to advance after them. We went about 300 yards and they were so many that they came in our rear and took the camp and everything that belonged to us; they came about us so thick that we could not handle our guns and then we knocked them down with the butt of the gun; the Zulus killed about 1841 of our fellows altogether but we ourselves killed some of the volunteers because they were running away and the colonel in command shot himself because he knew he had done wrong. He should not have put us to advance after them and leave the ammunition. However, we killed about 6000 that day. David Davies has been killed.... Thomas' statement that 'the colonel in command shot himself ' (referring probably to Durnford but possibly to Pulleine) is hard to credit; at the same time it is difficult to understand why he should have made such a statement had he not believed that such was the case. |
| | | Dave
Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:46 am | |
| I might have missed it . But I can’t find this Chap. Was he at Isandlwana. I can't find him among those that escape.
Dave. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3361 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:58 am | |
| Hi Dave
This article appeared in the North Wales Express, 18 April 1879.
1415 Thomas Thomas is listed on the Medal Roll for the 2nd Battalion 24th Regiment. |
| | | Mr Greaves
Posts : 747 Join date : 2009-10-18
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:25 pm | |
| This from Mr Julian Whybra.Posted on the RDVC. Author of “ England's Sons” - Quote :
- "Thomas was not at Isandhlwana and his letter cannot be relied upon in any of its comments. To quote from my England's Sons:
2-24/1415 Pte. Thomas Thomas This 2/24th soldier came from Ystalyfera in Wales. A letter home to his uncle and aunt from Rorke’s Drift, dated 19th February 1879, is extant in both Welsh and English versions. They were published in Y Gwladgarwr, 18th March 1879; Y Genedl Gymreig, 24th April 1879; and in the North Wales Express, 18th April 1879. From the ambiguity of the content it could be interpreted that the writer participated in the battle of Isandhlwana and it has appeared in print as a letter from a bona fide survivor. In reality, Thomas was out with his battalion as a member of Chelmsford’s reconnaissance on the 22nd January. Thomas is either deliberately not telling the truth or, to be generous, his writing in the first person plural has been taken literally when what he actually intended to convey was the third person plural." |
| | | Saul David 1879
Posts : 527 Join date : 2009-02-28
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:26 pm | |
| This is J. Whybra's opinion,taken from his own book. There is nothing to say that Thomas was told that the commarder shot himself by someone who was there, or even over heard it. But like it says he would not make a statement like that if he did not think it was true. There are eyewitness accounts relating to Durnfords death by none to Pulliene's. Infact his body was never found. Could it be possible that his body was found, with a single shot to the head. That would not have look good for Chelmsford. The officer he leaves in commard shoots himself. But we will never know as his body was never found. |
| | | dog2ed
Posts : 10 Join date : 2010-09-07
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:35 am | |
| David Davies as mentioned at the end of the extract was almost certainly Private David Davis 2/24 1414 who was also from Ystalyfera. the sequential numbers probably indicate they attested at Brecon the same day. Davis/davies are frequently misquoted!
David Davis was my great Uncle and I possess his medal. |
| | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:37 pm | |
| According to Zulu reports, Lt Col Pulleine was shot by a warrior named Maquedindaba. The Rev Lee (who was the Anglican priest stationed at Isandlwana shortly after the Anglo-Zulu War) interviewed the man who claimed to have killed him. He told him that he found Pulleine seated at a table in his tent and Pulleine drew a revolver and shot him in the cheek. He recovered momentarily and lunged at him with his iklwa, killing him. That is why he was given the name Maquedindaba – he who finishes the matter – and he showed the Rev Lee the scar on his cheek. Regards, Ken |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:21 am | |
| Hi Ken I seem to recall that Maquedindaba said that he "killed the man in charge", or words to that effect. What isnt said is how he knew that.
Regards |
| | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:05 am | |
| 'Morning. He described how he went into a 'little white house' where a white man was seated behind a table. No doubt some of the commanders would have investigated the aftermath, seen the Colonel's pips and concluded that he was (as was described) 'the induna of the army'. As you correctly point out, there is no written confirmation, but personal accounts by or interviews of kehlas have helped to reconstruct some of the events and fit a few more missing pieces into the jigsaw puzzle. Regards, Ken |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:34 am | |
| Hi Ken Its a pity that Hamilton Brown didnt position Pulleins body when he saw it, that would have helped. In the tent area would tend to help the story, on the field in front of the tent would dispute it. The same of course for Coghill, repuatably he must have seen the bodie to have told all and sundry that he was dead. Its the Coghill part that doesnt fit.
regards |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:36 am | |
| Hi again Ken I dont know if you have noticed but a relative of Thomas Thomas has become a member of the forum. Under a seperate thread there has been a discusion.
Regards |
| | | dog2ed
Posts : 10 Join date : 2010-09-07
| Subject: Re: 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:40 am | |
| Really? If Thomas Thomas' relative is a member of this board I need to PM him/her urgently! |
| | | | 1415 Thomas Thomas of Ystalyfera to his Uncle and Aunt. | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |