Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. 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R.A.)![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. 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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor | |
| | Author | Message |
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SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:27 pm | |
| Sir Garnet Wolseley's disdain for Bromhead and Chard is well known (VC envy perhaps?) but something he also wrote in his journal was about 'the Doctor'
"The only one who behaved badly was the Doctor and reports say he was a coward"
Has anyone heard of any rumours or reports that this attack may be based on.
Presumably the Doctor is Surgeon Reynolds who was awarded the VC for his medical work under fire and for running ammo to the hospital.
Was this just more VC envy - he does say something along the lines of "I hear in their the camp"
On recording the award of The Victoria Cross to Major Chard, at Inkwenken Camp, St.Paul's Mission Station, Zululand, he wrote - "A more uninteresting or more stupid looking fellow I never saw. Wood tells me he is a most useless officer, fit for nothing. I hear in their camp also that, the man who worked hardest in defence of Rorke's Drift Post was a Commissiariat officer,who has not been rewarded at all. The only one who behaved badly was the Doctor and reports say he was a coward.
Cheers
Simon |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Stefaan
![Stefaan](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3818-24.jpg)
Posts : 59 Join date : 2023-09-11 Age : 60 Location : Bruges, Belgium
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:57 pm | |
| Hello Simon, the question is did he mean a medical doctor or was there another defender present who had a degree? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:15 pm | |
| Hi Stefaan
I suppose he could have been referring to someone with degree but I can't think of a defender who might have had a 'doctorate' and I assumed it was a medical doctor he was referring to.
Cheers
Simon
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Stefaan
![Stefaan](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3818-24.jpg)
Posts : 59 Join date : 2023-09-11 Age : 60 Location : Bruges, Belgium
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:10 pm | |
| He couldn't have meant Reynolds, could he? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:40 pm | |
| No sure what he was on about - it was something that was 'reported" - which doesn't make it true of course but I believe it was referring to Reynolds...... |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3256 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:20 pm | |
| Simon,
Wolseley’s Victoria Cross envy is of course well known.
There could be another reason why Wolseley made such a disparaging comment about Reynolds his religion. Wolseley was an ardent Church of Ireland Protestant, and Reynolds a Roman Catholic. Just my thoughts, but I think it could be a reason for Wolseley’s statement.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:05 am | |
| Vindictive old goat.....
For many years I always thought that Sir G lived in my home town. We had Wolseley Hall nearby (well we used to have until it was demolished, partly by my Gt Uncle Billy), I was in 'Wolseley' House at school and I used to go to the same church as the current Lord W (he's dead now but this was 20 years ago)
It was only on later life that I learnt they were the poor branch of the Wolseley's and that 'The' Lord W title had become extant (if that's the phrase) |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3256 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:11 am | |
| Simon,
There is a plaque to Garnet in Colwich, as he was a distant relative of your local Wolseleys.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:39 am | |
| Hi Colwich Church was the ancsetoral church of the Wolseley's and Ansons from Shugborough but the previous Lord W (or his family ancestors) had at some point converted to Catholism. Rugeley and Cannock Chase (the latter, which had largely been denuded, so where more heath like) were the location of a number of army maneuvers in the Victorian period (before the more famous WW1 camp) and we have Shooting Butt's Road, West Butt's Road and East Butt's Road on the outskirts of town - supposedly made or improved by the army. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] The hill in the background is Etchinghill - one of my old stalking grounds....(albeit 100 years later) Thanks Simon |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John Young
![John Young](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1461-56.jpg)
Posts : 3256 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:30 pm | |
| Simon,
Interesting photograph. I posted it recently and asked if anyone thought it was Fort Pearson? It was thought that it was. How odd.
JY |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:37 pm | |
| It might not be Etchinghill, then - I lifted the photo from Staffordshire Past Track - there's 2 or 3 photos of the Autumn Maneuvers.
TBH it does look like Rugeley but there are some 'buildings' on top of the hill - I will do some more snooping on the Internet. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:59 pm | |
| Can't find a decent modern image of the hill, there has been a lot of tree growth concealing it from the road but I'm certain it is Etchinghill. Found a couple of photos, which show shape of the hill [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Wed Nov 22, 2023 2:48 pm | |
| This is the graphic version of the hill. The flag pole is still there - or it was during my lifetime (there is sandstone out crop at the top of the hill) The road heading off passed the hill would become Bower Lane. I'm sorry to overdo it but it's the first time I can post anything with authority on his forum...... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SRB1965
![SRB1965](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2457-70.png)
Posts : 1225 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:34 am | |
| As a final point about this area. My family came from a small village very near to Etchinghill, called Slitting Mill - the Marquis of Anglesey had iron smelting works along the stream - hence the name. In a desperate attempt to find hero amongst the Brown's, I have been for many years 'doing' my family tree.... You do have to take some transcriptions of documents with 'Julianesque' caution. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:43 pm | |
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