Latest topics | » 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's DriftToday at 8:19 am by Julian Whybra » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeYesterday at 9:36 am by Hobbes » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen » Late Father's Militaria CollectionSun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965 » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra » Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South AfricaSat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves » Sickness among Crealock's menFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtilleryTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny » Brevet Major W.R.B. ChamberlinSun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1 » Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th RegimentSun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash » Sergeant W E Warren RA - VeteranSun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS » "With 6 good riflemen"Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes » Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965 » Colonialism: A Moral LegacyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th » An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young » The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert WeatherleyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo » Writing adviceTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash » Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra » 100,000 posts!Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds |
April 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » Late Father's Militaria CollectionThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 pm by Hobbes » Sickness among Crealock's menThu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtillerySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Which Battle Doe's This Portrait | |
|
+9kwajimu1879 ADMIN ciroferrara RALPH HINZE Mr Greaves Frank Allewell 90th Chelmsfordthescapegoat littlehand 13 posters | Author | Message |
---|
littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:58 pm | |
| |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:16 pm | |
| The wagons in the background seemed to be in a laager formation. Could this be Ntombi River? |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: which battle does this portray. Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:33 am | |
| hi littlehand. I"m going with Younghusband as he and his men fought their way down the slope of Isandlwana. Even though this is depicted on flat ground. I bought a similar print on ebay a couple of weeks ago entitled " At Bay " cheers 90th here is the one I bought. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:02 am | |
| Extract from: By Bertram Mitford. Interviewing a Zulu Warrior that took part in the Battle of Isandlwana
"There was an induna in front of them with a long flashing sword, which he whirled round his head as he ran it must have been made of fire." |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:28 am | |
| I would hazard a guess at niether/both. The waggons in the background say Ntombi, but is that a regimental Flag in the top right? So possibly a re enactment of Ntombi starring Mellville and Younghusband |
| | | Mr Greaves
Posts : 747 Join date : 2009-10-18
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:44 pm | |
| I will go with Ntombi as well based on the wagon formation.
G |
| | | RALPH HINZE
Posts : 12 Join date : 2011-10-13 Age : 55 Location : Piet Retief, South Africa
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:49 pm | |
| It could be Intombi River, but if it is, the artist took quite a few liberties. Where is the river? Also the soldiers have too many clothes on. Remember that the soldiers at the Intombi River stumbled straight from their beds to their graves, so to speak. Because of the incessant rains their clothes were wet and many were drying them during the night, so that I suppose very few would have worn a full set of clothes. I would rather think it depicts one of the other battles. On the picture of the Battle of Intombi River from the Illustrated London News of 10 May 1879 one of the soldiers is actually depicted crawling out of the river naked. This is probably Josiah Sussens. I will get somebody to paste the picture for me, then I'll publish his account of the battle as reported in a Pretoria newspaper. |
| | | ciroferrara
Posts : 284 Join date : 2010-10-07 Age : 32 Location : exeter
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:26 pm | |
| i beleive i read somewhere that this image was originally meant to depict the ntombi massacre but has since been used to depict isandlwana |
| | | ADMIN
Posts : 4349 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 65 Location : KENT
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:43 pm | |
| |
| | | kwajimu1879
Posts : 420 Join date : 2011-05-14
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:36 pm | |
| I only have this as a magic lantern slide, so please forgive the poor quality of the reproduction, the slide is captioned as 'An Attack on a Waggon Escort', therefore I'd go with Ntombe. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]kwaJimu1879 Collection.kwaJimu1879 |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:42 pm | |
| |
| | | RALPH HINZE
Posts : 12 Join date : 2011-10-13 Age : 55 Location : Piet Retief, South Africa
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:02 pm | |
| Admin, thanks for your help with publishing the picture from ILN above.
Here then is Sussens' letter with Sic.. left in place from the Transvaal Argus. I asked a question about it on another forum and a person calling himself Dundee Boer sent the full account:
How a Pretorian Escaped from the Intombe River Disaster
“I was in the wagon, sleeping, and early in the morning I got up to see if it was daylight, and the kafirs swarming around within twenty yards of me. The alarm was given, and Captain Moriarty called out “Guards out.” I ran back to my wagon to get my rifle (which belonged to No. 1 company Transvaal Rifle Volunteers, of which corps I am a member) but in the confusion of the bullets flying about me, I could not get it out. I now found it so dangerous that I determined to try to bolt, if I could, without remaining to take out my cloths. As I emerged from the wagon for the last time, I heard Captain Moriarty cry out, “Fire away, men, I am done.” I then went to the adjoining wagon to call Whittington (also a Pretoria man), and told him the niggers were around. He immediately came out and jumped down, but was caught almost as soon as he got to the ground, and, assegaid on every side. The poor fellow shrieked out, but without avail, as no assistance was at hand. Seeing that I was powerless to do anything, having no arms of any kind, I ran down between the oxen, and made for the river, which was about 60 yards off. I found the Zulus shooting and stabbing the people in all directions. The sight was a most horrifying one, and one never to be forgotten. I had to dodge about to save myself, and am now surprised to find that I managed to get through at all. As soon as I got to the river, I jumped in and made a dive, as swimming was too dangerous, the Zulus standing on the banks, and at the edge of the river, as thick as thieves, throwing assegais and aiming their guns wherever they saw a head. I came up about the middle of the river, but the moment my head was out, I saw several Zulus pointing their guns, and ready to fire. I therefore dived again, and came out on the other side. The river was very full at the time, and a strong current running. In crossing I had torn off my shirt, the only garment I possessed, and therefore when I landed I was entirely in a state of nudity. I now found that fighting was still going on on all sides of me, and that it was almost impossible I could get any further, and in my desperation I contemplated throwing myself in the water, to be drowned peaceably, rather than suffer the death by torture of many of those I saw around me. I however, got into a courageous spirit again, and dashed off, keeping as much out of the way of the enemy as I could. Several shots were fired at me, and assegais were flying in all directions, but somehow I happened to be fortunate and got clear of the encampment. I made for Myer’s station as fast as I could, and overtook one soldier on the road, who was shot dead just as I got up to him. I overtook two others shortly after, who were also shot. Getting further on, I fell in with Sergeant Booth and about a dozen men, who were keeping up a retreating fire, and fighting very pluckily. I rested for a few minutes with them, during which time I espied the Zulus coming round the hill to intercept us. I informed Sergeant Booth of this, and he kept up a steady fire upon them, and made the enemy retire back into the hills. I cannot speak too highly of the conduct of Sergeant Booth on this occasion; he fought most pluckily, and lost four of his small band here. It was entirely owing to their doing so well that any of us managed to get through at all. The Zulus would have entirely surrounded us, and not a soul could have escaped. Seventeen leaders and drivers were killed altogether, amongst them being Whittington, Campbell, and Goss. As I got in camp, I met Major Tucker going out with his men to the relief. Eight of us managed to get to Luneberg, and perhaps it would not be out of place if I were to state how I was received. Arriving in a state of nudity, with the exception of a soldiers overcoat, got from a native on the road, I applied to the authorities for blankets to sleep under, but was refused. They said they had none. Eight of us only had two blankets between the lot. To add to our annoyance two wounded Zulus were brought in (one was on my own cartel) and were put into a nice tent and covered with blankets, whilst we had to take our chances as best we could underneath the wagons. Only a very few of us survivors had any cloths on when we arrived, and we managed to get along as best we could -a shirt from a soldier, trowsers from a second, boots from a third, and so on. A sale of clothing, &c., took place afterwards, when we were allowed to buy a few things. And so we got on.”
|
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:29 pm | |
| Ralph. Thanks very much for posting this. With reference to below. Am I to take it the Zulu's in-question were friendly Zulu's NNC ect. Or were they members of the attacking Zulu Force. Do we have the names of these 8 Surviors, Good to see he gives a good account of Sgt Booth.. - Quote :
- To add to our annoyance two wounded Zulus were brought in (one was on my own cartel) and were put into a nice tent and covered with blankets, whilst we had to take our chances as best we could underneath the wagons.
|
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Which battle Does tis portray. Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:24 pm | |
| Hi Pete. The ILN you posted on behalf of Ralph is certainly the Ntombe Drift Battle . If I'm not mistaken I think that is the cover of Bartlett's book . cheers 90th. . |
| | | RALPH HINZE
Posts : 12 Join date : 2011-10-13 Age : 55 Location : Piet Retief, South Africa
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:06 am | |
| Hallo Littlehand
I am glad you enjoyed the account as much as I did.
I don't know who the Zulus were, but I presume they were friendly Zulus, probably wagon drivers or so that survived somehow. I cannot imagine that the British rescuers would have spared any foe's life after seeing their own comrades' bodies mutilated at Entombe drift (which historically is erroneously spelled Intombi Drift).
The picture from ILN is definitely of Entombe Drift. One can roughly make out the shape of the mountains. On the right there is Tafelberg (Table Mountain) which looks more like the Cape Town one than the one on the spot, but it is identifiable none the less! In reality one can't fit all these mountains into one picture standing at the Entombe Drift, as they form a circle of almost 180 degrees around you.
Regards.
Ralph |
| | | Neil Aspinshaw
Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:00 pm | |
| Or Khambula, the Zulu's got to the wagons,which were In Laager, with riflemen on the wagons, and don't forget Lt Brights" bayonet charge to push the Zulu's off the ledge...just a thought. |
| | | Drummer Boy 14
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:21 pm | |
| This photo is on the front cover of Curlings book [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Cheers |
| | | matthew83
Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:44 pm | |
| - Neil Aspinshaw wrote:
- Or Khambula, the Zulu's got to the wagons,which were In Laager, with riflemen on the wagons, and don't forget Lt Brights" bayonet charge to push the Zulu's off the ledge...just a thought.
That's what I had thought too, perhaps Hackett's sortie? |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Which Battle does this portray Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:29 am | |
| Hi Neil / Matt . As far as I'm aware there wasnt a river this close to the kambula camp , to me its the cover of Bartlett's book and it certainly is to represent the Imtombe River Massacre . cheers 90th. ps. There are two pictures on here at the moment , the one involving the river is the one I'm on about . |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Bartlett's Book Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 pm | |
| Hi All. This is the Illustrated London News picture which appears on the Bartlett Book . Fairly expensive this copy i've seen them much less expensive . . [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]cheers 90th. |
| | | matthew83
Posts : 65 Join date : 2011-12-15
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:18 pm | |
| Studying both images, I cannot help but think they are not one and the same, the smaller image cannot be found within the larger.
The larger image on the London illustrated paper is undoubtably intombe, the smaller; only Khambula holds weight for me.
Happy to be corrected, can anybody find an engravers source?
Cheers
Matt
|
| | | tasker224
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 57 Location : North London
| Subject: Re: Which Battle Doe's This Portrait Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:06 pm | |
| Anyone got any idea who the artist was or when it was painted?
Reading all your posts, it could simply be a generic amalgam of a battle scene from the AZW. |
| | | | Which Battle Doe's This Portrait | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |