WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» The Pickets on Mkwene
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyToday at 10:06 am by aussie inkosi

» N/5 Battery RA at Isandlwana
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyYesterday at 12:29 pm by Julian Whybra

» 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, 1875
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 19, 2020 12:29 pm by John Young

» The 'other' fighting clerk - Corporal JH Mayor, N.N.C
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Oct 17, 2020 5:07 am by Frank Allewell

» Somerset soldiers killed at Isandhlwana
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyFri Oct 16, 2020 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» "The Wiltshire Regiment 1756-1914"
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Oct 10, 2020 4:46 am by kaveman

» The Unknown Warrior Westminster Abbey
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyWed Oct 07, 2020 3:06 pm by ADMIN

» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Oct 06, 2020 2:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant Anthony Kingscote, HMS Tenedos
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2020 3:31 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Sir Robert Gordon Gilmour
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 4:22 pm by 90th

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 11:27 am by 1879graves

» Lieutenant Frederick Streatfield Pelly, RN
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 4:09 pm by 1879graves

» KEYNSHAMLIGHTHORSE GRAVES WEBSITE
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 am by ADMIN

» Regimental numbers
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 12:55 pm by Frank Allewell

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 am by Julian Whybra

» Colour of Lord Chelsmford eyes
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 8:05 am by Simonsole

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Black as Hell, Thick as Grass
Top posters
90th
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
littlehand
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
ADMIN
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
1879graves
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
rusteze
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
John
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Herbie
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
90th
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Tim Needham
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Isandula
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
briannorris@sos.co.za
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Kenny
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_leftOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. BarOne of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
Natal 24th james payne drift john Isandlwana Police harford zulu George henry Durnford spalding horse Franklin william martini melvill Mounted gardner Russell taylor Prince smith Woolfryes

 

 One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.

Go down 
AuthorMessage
24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Jul 26, 2010 8:10 pm

Can anyone shed some light on this lesser know story. It all took place around the same time as the Battle of Isandlwana. Because its new to me


" Four miles away from parallel to the east, the Carabineers had discovered the right tip of the impi climbing up one of the slopes leading to a stream crossing the second valley. They had been watching a group of about 200 warriors retreating towards the Ngwebeni Valley. This had made some men nervous, thinking that it was just a Zulu manoeuvre to lead them away from the camp and then ambush them. Baker, a soldier of the Carabineers and member of this group of scouts was among them.”

He writes.
“ Approximately two hundred Zulu headed towards us from some three hundred paces away; but as we advanced, they disappeared out of sight. One of our men climbed up the hill where they had disappeared and on a hill further away; at approximately 600 paces, we saw an enormous army sitting down. We returned with Lieutenant Scott, covering what were then the three miles back to camp and informed him about what we had seen.”


There was a third witness who said he saw an enormous impi before one o’clock in the morning, without be sighted by them. He was a rider from the mounted unit known as the Buffalo Border Guard, by the name of Arthur Adams. He had been galloping along the outpost watches and by climbing about five miles from Isandlwana, which he descries as a high hill, overlooking the deep valley, he saw an enormous Zulu Army that he estimated to be at least 25.000 to 30.000 warriors. He returned to camp and informed an imperial officer, whose name is unknown, who ignored him completely. He must have thought that the colonial volunteer had told him something crazy.



Back to top Go down
old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1096
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 8:18 am

24th Where did this come from. scratch
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 3954
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 7:35 pm

Old H.
It’s from “Rorke’s Drift The immortal Zulu Anglo-Zulu-War” By Carlos Roca.
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 7:52 pm

I have this book. There is some very good martial. Loads of letters from the Zulu War ect.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 40

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 8:39 pm

Can the information in this book be confirmed? I have never heard of this author. Any reviews been done. And how can I find out if there was a Trooper Arthur Adams in Buffalo Border Guard.

scratch If the imperial officer ignored him, why did he not report it to someone else? 20-30 thousand Zulu's not an every day occurrence. Especially when he knew the British were camped at Isandlwana. (Doe’s not ring true to me) But willing to be corrected.
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3055
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 8:52 pm

Hi impi

The only help I can give you is the Following

Trooper ? Adams (Snr) Buffalo Border Guard
Trooper ? Adams (Jnr) Buffalo Border Guard

Both are listed as having survived the Battle of Isandhlwana on 22nd January 1879. Medal & Clasp '1879'
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyTue Jul 27, 2010 9:18 pm

Quote :
Both are listed as having survived the Battle of Isandhlwana
I would have thought he would have pointed out the Imperial officer who ignored him, (That’s if the officer survived. (Using those famous words " I TOLD YOU SO"

Thinking about it. We could say the diaster was down to an unknown Imperial Officer. Food for thought !!!
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10140
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: lesser known story.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am

hi impi.
I have Carlos Roca's other book on Isandlwana , its ok but it does appear some of the sentences are ' Lost in Translation '
in other words they dont make much sense ( Grammar Wise ) . Good pics B & W and Colour , Great cover print by Guiseppe
Raba which is also one of the double page prints . I think it is worth having but wouldnt want to pay anymore than 10 quid or
thereabouts . He does list the names and ranks of the 1 /24th and 2 /24th killed at Isandlwana , but not the Colonials. As I said
its worth having but dont pay to much for it . Idea
cheers 90th .

ps. I am certain I have mentioned this book on the forum a while ago . I will send a link for good priced copies. Well worth buying
if you can get the lower price. Bear in mind the postage stated is to Australia :lol!: .



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hope this helps . Idea
cheers again 90th.
Back to top Go down
24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 31, 2010 11:33 am

So. Could it have been true. I can find nothing to say it did or it didn't only what's in the book mentioned.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 5:39 pm

For the sake of reviving a decade old thread, there were two Adams who survived Isandlwana while assigned to the Buffalo Border Guard.

Quartermaster-Sergeant William Adams Snr, BBG
Trooper John Adams Jnr, BBG

I've never seen the account mentioned by Carlos Roca but I do have his book on order, curious to track this one down.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 11:18 pm

Roca does not give the source but he has lifted it from Saul David's two books. The actual 'source' is a rather suspect 1951 newspaper article.
Weekend Warrior - I'll e-mail you.

WeekendWarrior likes this post

Back to top Go down
Herbie



Posts : 55
Join date : 2017-11-16
Age : 55
Location : Epsom, Surrey

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 11:22 pm

Hi WW. Not sure where I found it (internet article I think) but I believe QMS William M Adams had two sons in the BBG. One was Tpr John Adams who escaped separately from him from Isandlwana. The other was left behind at Fort Pine as he was only 16. Don’t have a Christian name for the younger son. Saul David gives the same account of Arthur Adams in his book Zulu but I’m not sure if he’s the most reliable author? He guesses the British officer was Coghill but only because he was lying down apparently! I will see if I can find the article again but I’m sure it didn’t name an Arthur Adams.
Phil.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Herbie
Not John but William. I have his account.
The second son was named Charles. I have his too.
No Arthur.
I'm afraid the Roca and David versions must be taken with a pinch of salt.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 11:36 pm

I have an excerpt of it; it's by a gent named William Newmarch (he was at Eshowe, just confirmed) recounts the Adams tale secondhand. A 1951 Cape Times article published it; Mr. Whybra is going to be kind enough to provide me a copy. I'm not exactly sold on the veracity of the account so far but still should be interesting.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 7:59 am

The colonial units were of course issued with night vision binoculars which is how they managed to see such distances in the pitch black at one in the morning - note: BEFORE Dartnell's plea for help arrived in camp (I hear Chelmsford was very good at pooh-poohing ideas).  
Although that timing is according only to certain writers.  Others (Thompson, Black Soldiers..., p. 59) cite Newmarch's fictitious 'Arthur Adams' as being one of Durnford's scouts sent out after his initial meeting with Pulleine.
Useful bloke, Arthur Adams!
By the way, the 1951 informant was T. Newmarch not William Newmarch of the Eshowe letters fame.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 8:23 am

A Newmarch descendent, Peter, is believed to hold some documentation on this issue.
There was a conversation on the RD forum some time ago.

Peter E.
You and Mike are correct. I was not at liberty to give any more information that was mentioned in my post. I have today, now obtained permission to release further details.
The newspaper page has a reference KCM 0217|1117. Cape Times November 17th '51.
The article is written by Thomas Henry Newmarch and it sub-titled, "Durnford Arrives.' It includes the quote I made.
Peter Newmarch's , Great Grandfather's brother was Thomas Newmarch and Peter has the relevant files on family matters during the period, including letters etc.
Peter lives in Durban North, virtually down the road from me and is now quite happy to release these details.
How did Thomas Newmarch get the data from Adams? Quote from the article:
"I was told this by Arthur Adams, a member of the Buffalo Border Guard who was present." [At Isandlwana.] The year 'told' is verified as 1886.
And of course its value still needs analysis.
Hope that this clarifies and helps.
Peter
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 8:34 am

There is another priceless quotation by an iNgobamakhosi warrior from T E Newmarch on p. 113 in Paul Williams's 'Custer and the Sioux, Durnford and the Zulus' (Jefferson NC, 2015).
Post eventum miraculous revelations of a 'why didn't anyone see it at the time'-'why wasn't it obvious to everyone besides the author' nature just don't sit well.
Frank, I hope you get to see these papers yourself and can send us a sound judgement.
(Several authors give the initials as TE - I wonder how the Henry became E?)
Back to top Go down
Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey

Posts : 246
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 9:24 am

A relatively high number of mounted Colonials 'survived' the battle by being absent on a patrol under Major Dartnell searching for the Zulu army. Those who were at Isandlwana had mixed fortunes. Only about 25% of men from Natal's most professional units, the Natal Mounted Police and Natal Carbineers, survived. The essentially amateur soldiers from Northern Natal were more fortunate, with the Newcastle Mounted Rifles having 50% surviving, while 60% of the Buffalo Border Guard survived.

I have assumed that the Colonials were more likely to realise what lay in store for them if the Zulus did prevail. The 1838 massacres of Voortrekkers by the Zulus were still within living memory. The savagery, real and imagined, perpetrated on about 70 men at the Zulu capital, and about 530 women, children and Khoi servants near Weenen ('place of weeping') would have been common knowledge.

If there had indeed been a BBG soldier at the camp with first-hand knowledge of a large Zulu army nearby, the news is likely to have been taken very seriously by his Northern Natal comrades.

I realise that further speculating on this issue serves no purpose, and my apologies for having done so.

Brett
Back to top Go down
Online
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 10:08 am

Brett
Except to have reported the impi's presence in the middle of the night means that he would have had to still be in camp for the battle and not on the Mangeni.
Also there is no BBG survivor of that name and no man in its muster roll of that name.
Newmarch may have noted down Arthur Adams's remarks but they don't have to have been true.

John Young
I'm hoping that John Young will help me out here...this whole thread has jogged my memory.  I recall reading in the 80s or 90s a repro of a 1920s' newspaper article re the escapade of an Arthur Adams who, aged 11 or 12, 'borrowed' a horse from his father's farm and rode out to see his brother and father QMS Adams at Isandhlwana to join in the fight.  He arrived at the camp late in the evening of the 21st and was immediately sent packing by his brother and Arthur had to ride home through the night.  It had a title something like 'youngest survivor's tale'.  John, I think you repro'ed it in an early edition of the AZWRS Journal - you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 10:53 am

Julian Im desperatly searching for that exact article. Ron Locke was given rights to publish the Newmarch documents, or so I seem to recall. Hopefully Peter Q will have been involved and sees this thread.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 12:42 pm

Frank
As I wrote, Newmarch may have recorded the anecdote in good faith. It doesn't mean that Arthur Adams gave it in the same spirit. And to be honest the anecdote is too full of holes to be genuine.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 2:05 pm

Julian, I have the letter in question from the 1920s paper. Give me a few and I'll dig it out.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 2:12 pm

Wonderful, it'll save me pulling up the floorboards in the attic to find my copy.
I have been rummaging through piles of notes and docs all morning much to my wife's annoyance.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm

Me to Julian, Mike copy me in please if you wouldnt mind.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 2:35 pm

It's the statement of SB Jones, NMR, I think. Email going out in a few.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 2:36 pm

Statement of S. B. Jones, Newcastle Mounted Rifles, Natal Mercury, 22 January, 1929.

We saw red.

An interesting survivor now resident in Durban is Mr. S. B. Jones. of 23 Woodford Grove, who, in spite of having passed the allotted span of three score years and ten, is still as active as a man many years his junior.
His memories of that history-making campaign are as fresh as if it took place only a couple instead of 50 years ago, and his narrative is full of stirring adventure.
‘I had just finished my time as a miller when I joined the Newcastle Mounted Rifles in October, 1878,’ he says:

My first job was rather a responsible one in the transport attached to Colonel Wood's base column at Newcastle, and although I was called up to join my regiment I was not able to do so until December. I was on the way back to Newcastle when I met my regiment, making towards the front. My brother, who was second in command, and the O. C. told me that they had fixed me up with a good job in General Wood's commissariat, and that they would advise me to stick to it. I could see that they were trying to baulk me from getting to the front and the thought rankled in my mind. But I was determined not to be beaten, so the first thing I did when I got back to Newcastle was to go to the General. He was a dear man and in his kindly way asked me what I wanted. After listening to my request he gave me the necessary permission to join my regiment, saying that although he was very sorry to be losing my services he was glad to see that I was so keen on seeing some of the fighting and that he would not bind me to his column under the circumstances.
Very pleased with the way things had turned out I made tracks for home at once to get myself fitted out. I had a pocket full of money, for General Wood had had a cheque made out for me on the spot, and I had not a care in the world when I got to the house. But my good spirits soon evaporated when I found that in order to put a further spoke in my wheel my brother had sold my horse, saddle and bridle. Horses were scarce and I was in an awful rage. The expense did not worry me, but the thing was to find someone with a horse to sell. In this unhappy frame of mind I took a walk up the street when I was hailed by an old friend, who was riding along on horseback. Looking at me he asked what the trouble was. My pent-up feelings then found expression in a torrent of words while I poured out the whole story to him. In the end he agreed to sell his mount, saddle and bridle to me, so we repaired to a shop nearby where I counted out the purchase price and took possession of it.
I rode the old nag, which was a good one, down to my home where I gave it a rest and a jolly good feed. A couple of hours later I set off after my troop. I rode the whole night through and caught them up at Helpmakaar over 60 miles away. I reported myself and had a few words with my brother over the sale of my horse in my absence, but things panned out all right for I managed to buy a decent horse from a man who had two, and at the same time I disposed of my Newcastle purchase to the military who wanted a packhorse. I then began to feel more at peace with the world. We stayed at Helpmakaar until the end of the month when we crossed the Buffalo River into Zululand.
The Natal Government at the time was very jealous of the lives of their volunteers and had stipulated that while they had no objection to the colonists giving their services to the military authorities, not one of us was to be taken over the border unless we signified our willingness to go. The result was that at our last parade all those who did not wish to go into Zululand were asked to stand aside. To our credit it must be mentioned that only four of our number, and one of those an officer, availed themselves of the offer.
Our O. C., then Captain Bradstreet, and we were attached to a column under the command of Colonel Dartnell, who afterwards became a General and given a well-deserved knighthood. I would like to say here that he was one of the finest soldiers the British Army ever produced and he was a man of whom it could be truly said that he was absolutely fearless. But I am getting away from my story. The first week or so of the New Year in Zululand we spent in parleying with the Natives and in gathering up loot, thousands of cattle being brought into camp. Then on January 12 we had our first fight. I remember it so well. It was on a Sunday morning at Isesekayo, which was afterwards christened Bashee Valley by the military. The scrap lasted two hours before we captured the position. I will never forget what trouble some of the Zulus gave us with seven elephant guns they had in a cave. These they filled with all sorts of things, mainly pot-legs, and they did a lot of damage with them too, as much as any 9-pounder could do. The chaps in the cave were stubborn blighters, too, and the only way we could get them out was by collecting a lot of grass and burning it at the mouth. The smoke which rolled into the cave in dense fumes did the trick.
We then went back to our camp five miles away where we remained until January 20. We volunteers were used as vedettes until the main column reached Isandhlwana when we were called in to join it. It was a large column, too, which stretched for seven miles along the road when on trek. On the way my horse unfortunately put a foot into a hole and strained one of its front legs. I reported the occurrence as soon as we got to camp; and knowing something about the treatment of horses I got a lot of turkey red with which I bound the animal's leg. This caused a great deal of amusement, but I did not care, for I knew that it would only be a matter of days before the beast was fit again.
That day the enemy were sighted on the flats on the other side of Isandhlwana and about midnight the bugles sounded the ‘Fall In.’ We paraded in front of our tents when we were told that a certain percentage of us were wanted to go and intercept the enemy. Volunteers were told to step two paces forward. It is hardly necessary to say that nearly every one of us did so, with the result that so many men were picked from each troop. My brother thinking he had a good excuse, seeing my horse was lame, told me to get back into the ranks. But even then I was not beaten.
The first thing I did was to make my way direct to Captain Bradstreet's tent to ask him whether I could have the old horse I had sold them for carrying packs. My brother then arrived on the scene and a few strong words passed between us, but in the end I had my way and was allowed to go.
Between 8 and 9 o'clock we sighted the enemy on the side of a hill, and three men were sent to parley with them, one of them was Sub-Inspector Mansell, of the Natal Police. While they were on the way the impi was seen to get up and gradually draw in the horns of the crescent, so they were immediately recalled. Then a message was sent to the camp for reinforcements in the shape of two companies and two guns, but as these had not arrived by nightfall we retired to the hills overlooking Cudene. I may mention here that we had a Native Contingent, numbering about 1,000, with us, and we had the greatest difficulty in averting a panic amongst them that night, all through which we sat by our horses.
In the morning, that was on January 22, we went on to Matjaan's still without the reinforcements who were still tramping along the road. Our regiment, with the Buffalo Border Rifles and some of the Natal Mounted Police, formed the advance skirmishing line, having the Natal Carbineers in support.
I forgot to mention that Captain Bradstreet had been killed in the meantime, and the command of our regiment devolved on my brother, C. J. Jones, the father of the present Mayor of Ladysmith. Well, while we were on the march, Colonel Dartnell sent a message to my brother asking for me to be sent along as his galloper. I had the finest mount in the column and was overjoyed at the prospect for I knew that if there was any fighting to be done I would be in the thick of it as long as I was near Dartnell. And I was not disappointed either because I had hardly joined him when we rode right into the thick of the Zulus. But as I said before, the Colonel knew no fear, although they were firing point-blank at him. One Zulu nearly got him and would have done so if he had not thrown himself back when I shouted to him. After firing the shot the Native ran off, but before he had gone very far I pulled out my revolver and, aiming at his retreating figure I brought him down with a shot right between the shoulder blades. I still have that revolver; being given an order by Dartnell himself permitting me to keep it when we were handing in our equipment on discharge.
Anyway, about two o'clock that afternoon the bugle sounded, so we rushed for our horses. Then I saw the Colonel talking to young Hayhoe, of Maritzburg, who had escaped from Isandhlwana and brought the news of the disaster to him. We started back immediately, meeting the oncoming reinforcements who were given orders to go straight back. We reached Isandhlwana after dark, and it was not before morning that the weary reinforcements joined us.
As soon as we got there we saw what had happened. The men had been killed practically where the Zulus fell upon them, and were stripped and disembowelled, but it was not until daylight came that we really saw the awful carnage and realised the stark brutality that the Natives had been guilty of. One sight, a most gruesome one, I shall never forget. Two lads, presumably little drummer boys of the 24th Regiment, had been hung up by butcher hooks, which had been jabbed under their chins and then disembowelled; all the circumstances pointing to the fact that they had been subjected to that inhuman treatment while they were still alive. We saw red, I assure you. An awful feeling came over us. And there, too, we found my horse stretched out dead, but still with the turkey-red bandage round his leg. So, although my brother, no doubt thought that he was acting in the best interests in trying to prevent me from seeing any fighting, I consider that I had a Providential escape by going behind his back.
In the morning, too, we found that we had been literally lying in blood, for we were peeling cakes of it and mud from our mackintoshes. And the stench! It was awful, I can still smell it at times. Some things remind me of it, as for instance a sweet potato that has been cooked when it is just beginning to go bad. And when I smell such things I become quite ill.
Towards daylight we were ordered to trek back to Rorke's Drift, but before we left it was light enough to see what a terrible fight there had been. One man was identified as Sergeant Swan had a heap of dead Natives all round him, all of whom he had no doubt accounted for before he was overpowered. Colonel Pullien had had all the wagons inspanned and it could be seen that it was his intention to form a laager, but the Zulus had attacked the camp before that could be done and had killed all the oxen in their yokes. There is no doubt that if the original orders had been carried out and a laager made the camp would have been held until reinforcements arrived. There is nothing like the old tactics of the Boers of putting up a barricade of some sort. In proof of that we saw where some of the 24th Regiment, about 100 of them, had got behind a ridge and built up a sort of stockade of ammunition boxes. From behind that flimsy defence they had kept the Natives off until all their ammunition was finished, and there we found them with heaps of empty cartridge cases beside each body.
We got to Rorke's Drift at 7.30 in the morning, passing a returning impi on the way. We passed them at a distance of a mile. On arrival at Rorke's Drift we swam our horses across while we used the punt. What saved Rorke's Drift and Natal was undoubtedly the fact that several wagonloads of mealies, ammunition and Army bread arrived there just before the attack. The mealies were in bags and were built up like a sandbag wall without which they could never have withstood the Zulu's rushes. The wall of mealies formed two sides of a square, the other two walls being the side of a high goat-kraal and the wall of the wagon house. The first thing the Natives did was to set fire to the homestead in which the sick and the wounded had been put. It was then that a Sergeant Hooke carried out five of these hospital cases and would have gone for more had he not been stabbed in the neck and shot in the back.
There were at the outside 70 men inside that little fort, and that they were hard put to defending it was seen by the way the mealies had been burned where the red-hot barrels of the rifles had rested on the bags, and the heap of cartridge cases that sloped from the top of the wall to the ground. Yeoman service was rendered to the little band by the Rev. Mr. Smith, who went round, handing out ammunition and loading rifles. Then outside it was possible to walk on the bodies of Natives from the walls of the fort for a distance of 150 yards.
We stayed there that night and then moved back to Helpmakaar. After a week or 10 days there it was decided to keep the volunteers on to patrol the borders. The Newcastle Mounted Rifles and the Buffalo Border Guard, under the command of my brother, took charge of Fort Pine, where we remained until we were relieved by reinforcements from England. Most of our time was spent in burying the dead and, although it was about three months after they had been killed, most of them were still recognisable. After Cetewayo's capture we were disbanded and I returned home to Newcastle.

Mr. Jones saw service a couple of years later in the Boer War of 1881, and then again in the Anglo-Boer War of 1899-1902. In the former he acted as interpreter to General Colley for a time, and was then sent in charge of a convoy to relief of Potchefstroom. In 1901 he was honoured by being made a J.P. of Natal in recognition for the services he had rendered to the Colony in one capacity and another.

Isandula likes this post

Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 6:57 pm

Actually Mike, I have this already but thanks for the thought!  I thought it was going to be the Newmarch-'Arthur Adams' anecdote.
If you didn't know already, S. stands for Samuel.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior

Posts : 90
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 7:03 pm

Ah all I have is the Newmarch excerpt on Arthru Adams I emailed you. If anyone does have the full Newmarch article, that would be greatly appreciated.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2136
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptySun Jul 05, 2020 8:29 pm

Julian,

Sorry for the delayed response I’ve been visiting family in Brighton over the weekend.

I have searched through the Journals of the former Anglo-Zulu War Research Society for anything on Arthur Adams, but to no avail.

With regard to the Newmarch family, the only one I have information on is William Newmarch, who was the Mayor of Greytown in 1929.

Checking my other resources shortly.

JY
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob

Posts : 2265
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 6:22 am

Julian Whybra wrote:
Brett
I recall reading in the 80s or 90s a repro of a 1920s' newspaper article re the escapade of an Arthur Adams who, aged 11 or 12, 'borrowed' a horse from his father's farm and rode out to see his brother and father QMS Adams at Isandhlwana to join in the fight.  He arrived at the camp late in the evening of the 21st and was immediately sent packing by his brother and Arthur had to ride home through the night.  It had a title something like 'youngest survivor's tale'. .

Bonjour Julian,
There is a similar story about the son of Sgt Andrew Swan who whas killed at Isandhlwana. It is a "family history".
Take a look at the thread "Newcastle Mounted Rifles Sgt A Swan".
Fred

About your point:
Adams Charles
“As a lad of 17 years, Mr Adams was on his way with a party of transport wagons to Isandhlwana where his father and brother were taking part in the battle, when a loyal Zulu runner intercepted the party with a warning them to go to back and form a laager at Helpmekar”.
- Another source (about one of the "Adams")
" It turned out that Adams was present at the disaster of Isandhlwana, as one in the volunteer corps. He told me that when Colonel Durnford came up with his force to the camp, and decided on going forward on his ill-starred expedition, everything was in a babel of confusion and undefense, and that no one understood any orders had been given about laagering up. There seems to be a general impression that the enemy was despised, and that great people knew better than little ones and smiled off their suggestions. So said Peter Hoog. 'How did you escape?' I asked. 'By having a good horse', replied Adams”.
Amitié
Fred
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-09-12

One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 7:37 am

John
Thanks anyway!
Fred
Thanks for the Swan info. It is very similar. It may be that I am mixing up the William Swan story with Arthur Adams but I have something in print, in the first person, dealing with this. A very good intervention Fred, thank you. Arthur Adams continues to intrigue and annoy.
Your last point is in my collection and relates to QMS William M. Adams.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.   One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana. Empty

Back to top Go down
 
One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: