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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 Ammo pouches and Haversack

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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

Ammo pouches and Haversack Empty
PostSubject: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 12:07 am

Hello All

I have been reading about the various equipment carried by British forces during the Zulu war, and have read that the two white (belt) pouches each contained 20 rounds in two packs of ten, and that the black (expense) pouch contained 30 loose tounds, does anyone know what sizes these pouches were?

It has been said in some comments in the books I have read, that the men at Isandlwana ran out of ammo, but I was wondering if any of the men would have carried any extra rounds in their haversacks. I know that the haversack was supposedly used for eating impliments, knife, fork, spoon, plate, etc, and for food storage, but looking at some of the artwork of the Victorian time, and also looking at pictures of the re-enactors equipment, some of these haversacks seem to be rather stuffed with more than just the basic K.F.S etc, and also some seem to be of a different pattern than others. Was there no standard issue or size of these haversacks, as some of the drawings and pictures I have seen seem to depict larger and smaller sizes and patterns. Has anyone out there got any details about these haversacks?

Thanking you in advance.

Regards

Martin.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10088
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Ammo pouches and Haversack Empty
PostSubject: Ammo Pouches - Haversacks    Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 4:59 am

Hi Mr.M.Cooper .
I cant tell you the sizes etc etc of those items but I'm fairly certain that the Valise Kit as it was known was all
the same size , and if I recall properly they were all left in Wagons at I think Helpmakaar to be transported up
to the troops at a later date , happy to be corrected . This was the case with Number 3 column if I remember correctly .
cheers 90th. Idea
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Ammo pouches and Haversack Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 9:59 am

Martin
Try an get a copy of Pierre Turners "Soldiers Accoutrements of the British Army 1750-1900" ISBN 101861268831 It lists ll sizes, dimensions etc.

The expense pouch, can realistically hold 10-15 loose rounds, not 30, Turner also corroborates this. It was purely an overspill pouch for split packets of 10 rounds. The haversack being a main vehicle for transport.

The later 1881 pouch contained 40 rounds, with an expansive capacity for the packets and the ball bag was made obsolete.

PS Have sorted out glitch with image sizes, check mail shortly.
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http://www.martinihenry.org
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 40

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PostSubject: Re: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 10:35 am

Pierre Turners "Soldiers Accoutrements of the British Army 1750-1900"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soldiers-Accoutrements-British-Army-1750-1900/dp/1861268831
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 12:20 pm

Hi 90th

Thanks for reply, but I didn't mean the large black valise that fitted to the small of the back, I meant the white haversack (bread bag I think they are sometimes called), that was slung over the right shoulder, came accross the chest and hung on the left side. You are right about the valise being transported in wagons, I think the men just carried the rolled greatcoat, glengarry and mess tin attached to the white braces, and these would be removed in camp, the men most likely wore the white belt with ammo pouches, expense pouch, white haversack (bread bag), water bottle and bayonet in frog.

Thanks again 90th

Regards

Martin.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

Ammo pouches and Haversack Empty
PostSubject: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 12:25 pm

Hello Neil

Many thanks for the information.

I will keep checking for the email, and hope all works ok.

Regards

Martin.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

Ammo pouches and Haversack Empty
PostSubject: Ammo pouches and Haversack   Ammo pouches and Haversack EmptySun Nov 13, 2011 12:33 pm

Hello impi

Many thanks for the link, very good of you my friend.

I have orderd a copy, so with luck it should arrive within the next few days.

Thanks again impi

Regards

Martin.
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