Dr Thrupp any infomation??

What infomation is there about this man other then the fact he was with Chelsmfords force on the 22nd of
January and took Colonel Durnfords watch.






Cheers
DB14

Hi DB14

James Godfrey Thrupp, Civilian Surgeon

He was attached to the 1st Battalion 24th Regiment, and was in charge of the Staff and Department during the first phase of the war. He was subsequently in charge of No 1 Field Hospital of Glyn’s Column.

He was born in Bath, Somerset and in 1901 he was living in Ealing, Middlesex as a ‘Retired Surgeon’ age 52.

from:victorianwars

"James Godfrey Thrupp, Member of the Royal College of Surgeons (Eng) 1871
Date of registration with the General Council of Medical registration: 18 Sept 1872

In the UK Medical Register of 1878, Dr Thrupp's residence is given as 1 St George's Place, Hyde Park, London.
In the corresponding register of 1891 (next I'm able to access), his residence is 33 Curzon St, Mayfair
Then in 1896, Lyndhurst, Addlestone, Surrey
Then in 1904 & 1909, 97 Uxbridge Road, Ealing
He disappears from the medical registers by 1912

There's something in the 1904 register entry that says (St George's, Paris, Vienna, Milan). Where he studied/practiced?
Dr Thrupp was, I believe, a civilian surgeon in Natal, who volunteered for war service and was appointed as the RMO of 1st/24th. I know nothing about him prior to this. He was not only with Glyn's Column at the end of the war, but at the beginning too - he was at Isandlwana on the fateful day.

In the early hours of the morning, when Lord Chelmsford made the decision to divide his force, advancing with the 2nd/24th and leaving 1st/24th in camp, he also gave orders that no wagons were to be taken. Nobody relayed this part of his order to the Principal Medical Officer (PMO) Surgeon-Major Peter Shepherd, who decided that while he himself would stay in camp (hence 1st/24th taken care of), Dr Thrupp would go out with the Flying Column, taking two wheeled ambulances with him (contrary to the GOC's orders). He went with a handful of medics and drivers, would have tailed along behind the troops, struggled at the big dongas intersecting the Isandlwana plain,and by the time he caught up, whatever excitment there was on that side of the plain was just about over. By now concern was growing about what was going on behind them at the camp. He would have participated in the chilling return to Isandlwana that evening, slept somehwere on the battlefield, and would have been one of the last to arrive at Rorke's Drift the following morning, also of course a charnel house by this stage. He would have helped Surgeon James Reynolds (exhausted) with his surviving patients and the newly wounded, the majority of the B Coy men having cuts and grazes of one kind or another. After that...dunno, sorry.
There are two mentions of Dr Thrupp in General Orders during the Zulu War.
(See Local General Orders relating to the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.)

No. 219, dated 10th December 1878, Times of Natal 13th December 1878.
7. Civil Surgeon Thrupp will take over medical charge of the 1-24th Regiment, in place of Civil Surgeon Hartley, reported sick.

District Order No. 9, dated 26th April 1879, Natal Mercury, 29th April 1879.
8. Civil Surgeon Thrupp will proceed on horseback to Ladysmith, where he is to report his arrival to the senior medical officer for duty."

Just out of interest.

LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.

OLD COURT.—Monday, October 28th, and Tuesday 29th, 1872.

Before Mr. Deputy Recorder.


Reference Number: t18721028-708


708. LEWIS SMITH (22), a soldier, was indicted for feloniously wounding Mary Ann Webster, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.

GEORGE HUDSON . I am a plumber, and live at 3, Taylor's Cottages, Lower Tooting—on 2nd September, about 9.15 at night, I was going through the Park towards Knightsbridge with four or five others, amongst them was Mary Ann Webster—we were laughing and joking with each other, and I gave her a kiss—the prisoner came up behind me and struck a blow at me with his belt and knocked my hat off—I did not hear him say anything—I did not see him do anything to Webster—I did not see whether she fell down or not—after receiving the blow I came back and took Webster to the hospital—after the blow was struck I was excited, and don't know what transpired.

Prisoner. Q. What were you saying when you passed. A. I never saw you—I did not say "What are you doing there, you brute of a soldier?"

JAMES ALLOM . I am a bricklayer, and live at 29, Sheldon Street, Edgware Road—on 2nd September, I was with the others passing through the Park; there were six of us altogether, we were walking abreast towards Knightsbridge, we were laughing and chaffing together—Hudson kissed the young woman—I said to him, "Don't be greedy," and immediately the prisoner came up from behind, and hit away with his belt right and left; I bobbed down and Hudson and his young woman received the blow; one of the blows fell on Hudson's hat and knocked it off, and another hit Webster—on turning round the prisoner said to me, "You b—, I will have you"—I fled from him; he pursued me for about five minutes; I then got assistance, and gave him in charge; the blows were given with the buckle end of his belt—I did not see any one with him when he gave the blows—when I gave him in charge he had a young woman with him—I did not hear any of our party say anything to the prisoner.

Prisoner. Q. Were you saying anything about soldiers as you passed?

See original A. No, we were talking between ourselves, and larking and joking, when you came up from behind—I did not hear you ask us to apologise for what we had said.

MARY ANN WEBSTER . I am single, and live at 3, Taylor's Cottages, Tooting—on 2nd September, about 9.15, I was in Hyde Park with my mother, Hudson, and others—we were busily engaged talking, and were certainly having a bit of fun—the prisoner came up from behind; I was struck and fell, and I remember nothing more—I was injured on my head, and was in the hospital three weeks—I have quite recovered now.

Prisoner. Q. Do you think I struck the blow at you? A. If you did not intend to hit me, you intended to hit one of the party.

JOHN WALSH . (Policeman A 99). On the night of 2nd September, about 9 o'clock, I was near Stanhope Gate—I heard cries of "Police!"—I went up and saw the prisoner pursuing Allom; I ran and stopped him, and asked if he had assaulted anybody—he said "No"—Allom told me he had assaulted a young lady, who was taken to St. George's Hospital—I took him into custody—he had his belt on.

Prisoner. Q. Was I drunk or sober? A. You were the worse for drink, but you knew well what you were doing.

JAMES GODFREY THRUPP . I am assistant house-surgeon at St. George's—the prosecutrix was brought there—I examined her head—on the upper part of the left side of the forehead there were two cuts about an inch long extending down to the bone; in one of the cuts the bone itself was fissured, or dented; a branch of the temporal artery was divided, which I had to secure—she also had a wound over the outer side of the left eye, which did not lead down to the bone—there was a great swelling over the eye, simply due to the blood which was underneath the skin—it was such a wound as a soldier's belt and buckle would produce, it was a serious wound, but she went on very well without a bad symptom.
Prisoner. Q. How would you suggest the mark came over the eye? A. Very likely by falling on the gravel—the other marks could not have been produced by that.

Prisoner's Defence. I did not intend to strike the woman, I was under the influence of drink; I don't believe there is a soldier in the army that would take his belt off with intent to strike a woman.

GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Nine Month's Imprisonment.

Hi All
Thrupp dies 10 may 1913 his death was registered in Brentford District West London.
Rai
Keynshamlighthorse

Any photo available of his Grave / Memorial

Hi all

Thanks for the infomation



Cheers
DB14

Thrupp takes the watch
Shepstone takes the pocket knife
Pearse takes the documents

Lots of people playing around with Durnfords corpse !

Regards

Another to add maybe is Surgeon Charles Gubbins

The original of the order was found possibly elsewhere on the field that day and, if so, perhaps in Durnford’s portmanteau which had been slashed open by an assagai-stroke. Trooper A. Pearce, a Natal Carbineer, and Civil Surgeon Charles Decimus O’Grady Gubbins, Medical Officer with the l7th Lancers, both took papers from it; a fact only disclosed six years later in response to an advertisement placed in a newspaper by ‘ED, the Witness Office’.
In an affidavit dated 11 June 1886, which was copied to Offy and reproduced in The Times of Natal, Gubbins swore that to the best of his recollection what he had sent to Frances in response to the advertisement was ‘an instruction from Lord Chelmsford to Colonel Durnford as to the commanding of the troops at Isandhlwana’. Like Crealock, Gubbins was not immaculate in recall; less than a year before he had told her that the papers did not contain the final order Harriette Colenso - a reporter of unquestionable integrity - informed The Times of Natal that Gubbins’s parcel had contained ‘nothing bearing on the events of that day at Isandhlwana’.


Cheers
DB14

Hi DB14

When was Surgeon Charles Gubbins supposed to have taken papers from Durnford's body?

Hi 1879 Graves

I have no idea

That passage is from the Anglo Zulu War Histroical Socity journels

That was the first i had heard of it.




Cheers
DB14

Here is the full account

The original of the order was found possibly elsewhere on the field that day and, if so, perhaps in Durnford’s portmanteau which had been slashed open by an assagai-stroke. Trooper A. Pearce, a Natal Carbineer, and Civil Surgeon Charles Decimus O’Grady Gubbins, Medical Officer with the l7th Lancers, both took papers from it; a fact only disclosed six years later in response to an advertisement placed in a newspaper by ‘ED, the Witness Office’. (28)
In an affidavit dated 11 June 1886, which was copied to Offy and reproduced in The Times of Natal, Gubbins swore that to the best of his recollection what he had sent to Frances in response to the advertisement was ‘an instruction from Lord Chelmsford to Colonel Durnford as to the commanding of the troops at Isandhlwana’. (29) Like Crealock, Gubbins was not immaculate in recall; less than a year before he had told her that the papers did not contain the final order (30) Harriette Colenso - a reporter of unquestionable integrity - informed The Times of Natal that Gubbins’s parcel had contained ‘nothing bearing on the events of that day at Isandhlwana’. (31)
What may be reasonably concluded from the available evidence? First, Offy Shepstone did not remove the final order from Durnford’s body. (32) Second, Fred Pearce’s letter about his brother’s find did not claim that the final order was among the papers picked up and Adrian Greaves article in the AZWHS Journal (33) appears to make clear that it was not. However, it cannot be definitely ruled out that he was the finder, though - for reasons which appear later in this article - it is unlikely. Gubbins was certainly not the discoverer, a fact that poses another interesting question. What motivated a relatively young professional man (At 31 years of age he was unlikely to have been suffering from seriously impaired memory) who went on to become Natal’s Colonial Secretary in 1906 (34) to furnish a sworn statement containing misleading information, inspiring yet another newspaper attack on the Colensos? It might have been part of Offy’s campaign to clear his name.


Cheers
DB14

Hi DB14

The following answers my question

Quote :

Gubbins was certainly not the discoverer,