Infomation on Mr Gubbins

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Charles Decimus O’Grady Gubbins was with the burial parties in May.

Which unit was he with??

Where did he go after the Zulu War??

Any time spent on this is greetly apprecated

Cheers
DB14

Subject: Re: Infomation on Mr Gubbins Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:59 pm

DB14. Here's some information. No doubt after reading this, you will be asking me more questions Idea

"The original of the order was found possibly elsewhere on the field that day and, if so, perhaps in Durnford’s portmanteau which had been slashed open by an assagai-stroke. Trooper A. Pearce, a Natal Carbineer, and Civil Surgeon Charles Decimus O’Grady Gubbins, Medical Officer with the l7th Lancers, both took papers from it; a fact only disclosed six years later in response to an advertisement placed in a newspaper by   ‘ED, the Witness Office’.
     In an affidavit dated 11 June 1886, which was copied to Offy and reproduced in The Times of Natal, Gubbins swore that to the best of his recollection what he had sent to Frances in response to the advertisement was ‘an instruction from Lord Chelmsford to Colonel Durnford as to the commanding of the troops at Isandhlwana’. Like Crealock, Gubbins was not immaculate in recall; less than a year before he had told her that the papers did not contain the final order Harriette Colenso - a reporter of unquestionable integrity - informed The Times of Natal that Gubbins’s parcel had contained ‘nothing bearing on the events of that day at Isandhlwana’.
     What may be reasonably concluded from the available evidence?   First, Offy Shepstone did not remove the final order from Durnford’s body. (32)   Second, Fred Pearce’s letter about his brother’s find did not claim that the final order was among the papers picked up and Adrian Greaves article in the AZWHS Journal (33) appears to make clear that it was not. However, it cannot be definitely ruled out that he was the finder, though - for reasons which appear later in this article - it is unlikely. Gubbins was certainly not the discoverer, a fact that poses another interesting question. What motivated a relatively young professional man (At 31 years of age he was unlikely to have been suffering from seriously impaired memory) who went on to become Natal’s Colonial Secretary in 1906 (34) to furnish a sworn statement containing misleading information, inspiring yet another newspaper attack on the Colensos? It might have been part of Offy’s campaign to clear his name."

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Littlehand, thanks very much for that. Idea

So he took papers from Durnfords portmanteau, if so why not take them all scratch

I never knew someone else found orders, i thourght it was just Pearce, thanks for that. Idea

So what unit was he with??

And was he in Natal when Laurd asked for the papers???

Cheers
DB14

P.S. where did you get this from???

Posts : 1074 Join date : 2009-10-16

Hi All
Charles o'Grady Gubbins was a civil surgeon, after the zulu war he stayed in Natal, he married Maud Bradstreet [nee Scoble] on 1 December 1880 she was the widow of Robert Bradstreet Newcastle Mtd Rifles killed at Isandlwana, they lived at Ingagane Natal. Charles Died 7 November 1911 or 1912 and is buried in the Old Cemetery Newcastle Natal. A picture of his grave is on the South African National Grave Website.
Rai
Keynshamlighthorse

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Thanks for that Idea

Cheers
DB14

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

But where papers taken from his body??

Most people say Pearce took them from his body, if this is
so why does he not mention it??

He only mentions finding it on the field, in a portmanteau??

Bit confused hear scratch

Cheers
DB14

Subject: Re: Infomation on Mr Gubbins Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:53 pm

DB14. Not sure if you have seen this. If not have a read. Quite good.

Click Here

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Hi Littlahand,

My membership came though yesterday and i read the article.

I agree its a very good account

Thanks for that Idea

However it does not say that Pearce took them from his body, only he
found his portmanteau on the field.

How could he " Find them " on his body without searching it???

Surly someone would have mentioned this

Cheers
DB14

Posts : 3379 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Hi DB14

The Times, Saturday, Dec 09, 1911; pg. 11
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British Medical Journal. 1912 January 2.
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Subject: Re: Infomation on Mr Gubbins Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:43 pm

Mate. There seems to be a lot going on with these various orders. I would image that after the loss of the camp, quite a few allegations were made for what purpose who knows. I also believe that certain individuals were sent out to retrieve them, before they fell into the wrong hands.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

Thanks 1879Graves

Littlehand

Crealock lied about the Durnford order to save His and Chelsmfords skin.

The certain individuals sent out that you mention.
Can you please expand on this? Idea

It seems unlikly to me anyone could be sent back to Isandlwana unprotected, search throw the
many hundreds of dead, identify an individual and remove papers.

Cheers
DB14

Subject: Re: Infomation on Mr Gubbins Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:03 pm

DB14. Your find this out quicker than I could.

How many people have be accused of taking items from Dunfords body. Or claimed to have removed them.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27

littlehand wrote:: DB14. Your find this out quicker than I could.

How many people have be accused of taking items from Dunfords body. Or claimed to have removed them.

Hi LH, Just seen this

Captain Shepstone removed 2 rings a knife and maybe some papers Suspect

Dr Thrupp took Durnfords watch

Pearce took a battered envolope from his pockets

Thats it i think

Cheers
DB14

Subject: Re: Infomation on Mr Gubbins Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:05 am

SIR CHARLES O'GRADY GUBBINS, M.D.,SENATOR OF THE UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA.

"The death took pltce in December, at Newcastle, Natal, of
Sir Charles O'Grady Gubbins, a medical man who for
many years played an active part in the professional life
of South Africa, and for the past ten years or more had
been a prominent figure in politics. He was born in
co. Limerick in 1855, and received his later education at
Trinity College, Dublin, where, after taking first-class
honours in history and literature, lhe entered the medical
faculty, and emerged therefrom in 1878 as M.B., Ch.B.
When reinforcements were called for in the Zulu war of
1879, he accompanied the troops sent out as a civil surgeon,
and when this engagement was over settled down in practice
in Newcastle, Natal. There he held office as District
Surgeon, and was in charge of the Base Hospital at Newcastle
during the Boer war of 1881. He was also correspondingly
employed during the last Boer war. On the
first and third of these occasions his services were
rewarded by a medal and clasp. Soon after the late war
was over he gave up practice and, turning his attention to
politics, was sent to the legislative chamber of Natal as
senior representative of the Newcastle district. In hiis
new career he rose rapidly. Some six years ago, when
the Moor Cabinet was formed, he joined it as Colonial
Secretary and Minister of Education. In the former
capacity he instituted marked improvements in the Natal
hospitals, especially those of Durban and Pietermaritzburg,
and as Minister of Education played the leading part in
the introduction of the Compulsory Education Act of
Natal, and of that which authorized the establishment of
a university college in the colony. On several occasions
during prolonged absences of his chief he conducted the
government of Natal, and was himself several times absent
from the colony as its representative on inter-colonial
commissions."

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Natal Witness 18th October 1879

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