WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Smith's Store/Hotel
the best book ? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard
the best book ? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
the best book ? EmptySat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra

» Zulu "Corps"
the best book ? EmptySat May 04, 2024 10:44 pm by Julian Whybra

» Fairlie's Native Police
the best book ? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
the best book ? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
the best book ? EmptyMon Apr 29, 2024 12:20 pm by IntCorpsMedals

» Looking for the medal to 1423 Pte. W. Gregg/Greig
the best book ? EmptySat Apr 27, 2024 1:46 am by sam steele

» 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's Drift
the best book ? EmptyFri Apr 26, 2024 8:48 pm by Julian Whybra

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
the best book ? EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 9:36 am by Hobbes

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
the best book ? EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
the best book ? EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965

» No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South Africa
the best book ? EmptySat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves

» Sickness among Crealock's men
the best book ? EmptyFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
the best book ? EmptyTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny

» Brevet Major W.R.B. Chamberlin
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1

» Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th Regiment
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
the best book ? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS

» "With 6 good riflemen"
the best book ? EmptySat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
the best book ? EmptyWed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
the best book ? EmptyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra

» John Robert Dunn
the best book ? EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
the best book ? EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
the best book ? EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» Writing advice
the best book ? EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
the best book ? EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
the best book ? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
the best book ? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
the best book ? EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
the best book ? EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
the best book ? EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
the best book ? EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
May 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
  12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The missing five hours.
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
Matthew Turl
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
Hobbes
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
John Young
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
ADMIN
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
Stefaan
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
General Gordon
the best book ? Bar_leftthe best book ? Barthe best book ? Bar_right 
New topics
» Smith's Store/Hotel
the best book ? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Zulu "Corps"
the best book ? EmptySat May 04, 2024 6:50 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
the best book ? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Fairlie's Native Police
the best book ? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 1:01 pm by Hobbes

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
the best book ? EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
the best book ? EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
the best book ? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
the best book ? EmptyThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
the best book ? EmptyTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 the best book ?

Go down 
+6
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
90th
Drummer Boy 14
warrior3
24th
Dave
10 posters
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyThu Jan 05, 2012 11:01 am

Hi

Strictly for the military side, what is the best book I have to buy on the Zulu War ...?

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave


Posts : 1603
Join date : 2009-09-21

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyThu Jan 05, 2012 9:24 pm

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Anglo Zulu War of 1879
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyThu Jan 05, 2012 9:29 pm

:lol!: :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:
Back to top Go down
24th

24th


Posts : 1862
Join date : 2009-03-25

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyThu Jan 05, 2012 9:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 7:20 am

Hello Dave

Oh yes, I forgot your book!

"The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Anglo Zulu War of 1879"

Written by Dave. Published by cretinous editions.

(only a copy sold, purchased by the author)

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 7:27 am

Hi 24 th

It is not expensive, but it speaks only of the 24 th, right?

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
warrior3




Posts : 100
Join date : 2010-06-28
Age : 59
Location : Maidstone, Kent

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 8:11 am

Pascal
Any books written by Ian Knight, or Ron Lock & Peter Quantrill, are a must. Well, that's my humble opinion. I must say, you do ask a lot of questions!!!
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 8:33 am

Hello

Hi Warrior

Yes it's true, but only because I am ultra passionate, enraged by the Anglo-Zulu war and all the other colonial wars in South Africa (except the Boer War of 1899 / 1902).

I have a lot of livres.Mais is always the same, they are too general, it is necessary to buy a ton to find the information, the detail ...

Yet the questions that interest me, are interested necessarily as others ...

Thanks to the forum, I was able to solve many questions, but ultimately, it seems that the military side of this war does not interest many people on the forums.

For example the famous question about the number of companies in each regiment Zulu ...

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 8:52 am

Warrior

And what wrote David Saul is right?

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 3:44 pm

For Isandlwana the best book by fare is How Can Men Die Better, its the best book i have ever read.

Saul David's Zulu is also very good.



Cheers
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 5:24 pm

THANK YOU YOUNG MAN
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book   the best book ? EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 10:32 pm

Hi DB14.
How can men die better is a great read but one has to be mindful that mike snook'ss work tends to be more of what he thinks took place , than actually what occured. I'm a firm believer of footnotes and Mike's work has a definite lack of them , which is off - putting to me anyway . But , as I said its a great read he has put together in his descriptions of what might have taken place on 22nd Jan 1879 .

Pascal .
There is no ' one book ' that will do what you wish it to do .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 7:36 am

Hi all

Until a future purchase, I preferr is:


" Narrative of the field operations connected with the zulu war of 1879" ecrit par the Captain J.S.Rothwell,R.A. in 1880.

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 1:17 pm

ZULU Victory or HCMDB
Back to top Go down
tasker224

tasker224


Posts : 2101
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 57
Location : North London

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 7:50 pm

Hi Pascal
Zulu Rising, by Ian Knight. Builds up the whole story to the action at RD and subsewuently; uses only source material on which to base the narrative.
I agree with 90th assertion that HCMDB is written by an author who is also an oficer of the regiment descending fron the 24th, so is not unbiased. He also fills in any gaps based on what he thinks would have happened.
Tasker
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 8:28 pm

good evening

The one I mentioned gives very low numbers of Zulu compared to what has been written later and now and it has been written in 1880 at the request of the British staff by an officer of the Royal Artillery! And accepted by the British staff in 1881...

Is not it a sign of honnetetée?

good night

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 9:34 pm

good evening

90 TH to write "There Is No 'one book' That Will Do what you wish it to do."

Please TH 90, I wish what kind of book do you think? (please look your pm)

Good night

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 27

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 9:42 pm

Hi

There are not that many books that cover the whole war, most only cover one or two battles.

My favorite on the whole war as i have said is Zulu The Heroism And Tragady by Saul David.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 11:31 pm

24th wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Quote :
MEN
-/260925076601?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item3cc058b479

Hi 24th

Thank you very much.
I have bought this copy
Regard

YMOB
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2590
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 1:23 am

Hi Pascal

I don't think you could go far wrong if you get books by Ian Knight. Companion to the AZW, is a very good book, Zulu rising is another one to look for. A must have book called 'Zulu Victory' by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill makes for some excellent reading, but it is about the battle of Isandlwana and the cover up that followed that blamed the gallant Col Durnford. There are others to look out for such as, 'The illustrated guide to the AZW' by John Laband and Paul Thompson, 'In Zululand with the British Army' Charles L, Norris-Newman, and there is one that tells you the truth about the film zulu, called 'Zulu the truth behind the film' by Paul Raby, there is also the book that DB14 mentioned 'Zulu the heroism and tragedy' by Saul David.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: The Best Book    the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 4:49 am

Hi all .
Some good books mentioned here and a very good one purchased by ymob , ' The Noble 24th ' but it indeed only
really deals with that Regt . Pascal is wanting a book that deals with the MILITARY side of things , which there isnt
really one to do that with the exception of the book he has already which is ' The Narrative Of The Field Operations
Connected With The Zulu War Of 1879 '' by the Intelligence Dept .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 7:44 am

Hello

Yes it's true, anyway all are valid (if you know what author says bullshit, what book do not buy, unfortunately next to the people of this forum, I know little about the Zulu Wars) by cons for uniforms, those published in Osprey are essential.

With some of this forum, I have bought five books including:

- The Zulu Army and Zulu Headmen .Compiled from informations obtained from the most reliable sources,and published by direction of the Lieut- General commanding for the informations of those under his command (First edition ,before the first invasion and second edition "revised"after the ...)Written by Chelmsford on Zulu for its officers...

- Black soldiers of the queen,the natal native contingent in the anglo-zulu war by P.S.Thompson.

- England's Sons ,A Casualty an Survivors's Roll of British Combants for the Battle of Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift. by Julian Whybra.

- Forgotten Heroes Zulu & Basuto Wars Including Complete Medal Roll 1877-8-9 by Roy Dutton.

- Historical Records of the 24 Th Regiment,from its formation in 1689 by George Paton,Farquhar Glennie.

- Treatise on ammunition ,printed by Order of the Secretaty of State for War,Corrected up to DECEMBER ,1877

- The Atlas of the Later Zulu Wars 1883-1888 by John Laband

And now , I want a book avec information on the number of coys in each zulu regiments for each battles !

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 7:52 am

Dear Garry

The Zulu War Was a war, too, Normal Is Just To Be Interested in the military side of Things, right?

And I'm sure not the only Being in this case ...

Not forget that it is above all a war ...

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: The best book   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 8:45 am

Hi Pascal .
Agreed . It's normal to seek information on a subject you are interested in . You seem to have a good selection of books .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 9:44 am

I have much, but it's mostly osprey and not all of the Zulu war because I like also the other colonial wars in South Africa and in the future Rhodesia .

For example, with the figures of the Zulu War, you can also face the Xhosa figures in 1877- 78 and Pedi figures in 1878-79 or the Boers in 1881-82 but not the Basutos in 1880 alas ...

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2590
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 3:09 pm

Hi Pascal

I forgot to mention a good book that might be of interest to you, and that is; 'Uniforms and Weapons of the Zulu War' by Christopher Wilkinson - Latham, it gives details of the parties involved, ie; The British Army, The Colonial Troops, and The Zulu Army, giving details of items worn and carried by the Zulu regiments involved, this may be of great interest to you in making and painting the various regiments of the Zulu Army. It is a good book, however, it would be better if it had more coloured plates, but it is well worth keeping an eye open for it. Take a look on eBay or Amazon, you may get lucky and obtain a good copy of it.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 3:15 pm

Genial ,thanks !
Back to top Go down
Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2590
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 3:33 pm

Hi Pascal

I have sent you a PM.
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4350
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 65
Location : KENT

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 4:21 pm

"With His Face To The Foe" I think this is the best book Ian Knight has written. Idea
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 4:33 pm

Thank you MR Cooper and Matt of the administration, by dint of buying books, I'll end up bum!

In any case "I" so that war, that even bad books are good for me.

cheer

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2590
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 5:02 pm

Hi Pete (Admin)

I have heard a lot about this book about the Prince, thanks for the recommendation, I will have to add it to my collection.

Regards, Martin. Idea
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 6:11 pm

Echo Admin's words Idea
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyMon Jan 09, 2012 7:57 am

Hi all

But no one likes ?

"Narrative of the Field Operations connected with the Zulu war of 1879" written by the Captain J.S.Rothwell, R.A. in 1880.

It should be as close to reality, it is the bible for this war ...

Cheers

Pascal
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptySun Sep 08, 2013 2:50 pm

The book of Mr Jackson !
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




the best book ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: the best book ?   the best book ? EmptyMon Sep 09, 2013 7:08 am

Virtually everyone agrees, it's good !
Back to top Go down
 
the best book ?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Organisation and uniforme of the British Mounted Infantry in each battle
» If there is just one book!
» The Red Book

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: