Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra » Zulu "Corps"![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes » Army Pay Department Personnel![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra » Ntshingwayo birth date![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes » Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith's Store/Hotel![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Shaka iLembe![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84 » Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman » Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra » Fairlie's Native Police![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes |
July 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Bayonet against Assegai | |
|
+690th Neil Aspinshaw tasker224 24th Drummer Boy 14 littlehand 10 posters | Author | Message |
---|
littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:34 pm | |
| Neil one for you. Do you agree with this Sgt Major!! Bruce Herald, Volume XII, Issue 1108, 27 May 1879, Page 3 [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Last edited by littlehand on Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:42 pm | |
| The Zulus used their shields to deflect or absorb the Bayonet, an example of this is Umohti.
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 24th
![24th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/20-37.jpg)
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:05 pm | |
| DB. I think LH is referring to the heating of the rifle and the ability to attached the bayonet , after 70 rounds. Look at what the Sgt Major is saying. No doubt he's experienced in the use of the MH.
Will be interesting of Neil concurs with this Sgt Major. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:14 pm | |
| 24th
Point i was trying to make is, even if the gun was very hot there are still many accounts of men using the bayonet after the ammuntion ran out.
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | tasker224
![tasker224](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/174-90.jpg)
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 57 Location : North London
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:05 pm | |
| I remember reading, don't remember where, that the Zulus had more fear and respect for the bayonet than the bullet; they were more hesitant in front of the bayonet. DB, I agree, there is much written about the men using bayonets in the hand to hand fighting. I am sure that the men and NCOs of the 24th would have known the idiosyncracies of the MH in almost as much depth as Neil A. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 24th
![24th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/20-37.jpg)
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:43 pm | |
| - Quote :
- 24th
Point i was trying to make is, even if the gun was very hot there are still many accounts of men using the bayonet after the ammuntion ran out. Cheers But thats not why the artical was posted. It was posted to determine wether or not the Sgt Major is correct. Not to determine if they used Bayonets or not at Isandlwana. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:03 pm | |
| Tasker
I'm sure that was in Hitch's account of RD.
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Neil Aspinshaw
![Neil Aspinshaw](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/42-32.jpg)
Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:10 pm | |
| LH The men of B Company were very adept with the bayonet, and there is no reason why the older men of the 1st battalion were even more proficient with it. Hook certainly chose to comment about it's capability,
Barrel heat was countered with an un-official hide guard, Lloyds paintings illustrates this, however, few contemporary reports apart from this one, regarding heat actually effecting the weapon in close combat , I'm not sure if a nameless "sergeant Major", who was obviously not present, can be regarded as a primary scource.
What we do know is the Enfield Martini, did have an integral guard which clipped onto the barrel, it was not adopted,
http://www.martinihenry.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=61_59&product_id=78
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:14 pm | |
| Thanks Neil. But is he correct in that it would have been quite a task, fixing the bayonet after firing 70 shots with regards to burns. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Drummer Boy 14
![Drummer Boy 14](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/580-5.jpg)
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:31 pm | |
| LH
They'd have fixed bayonets before they began to fall back off the firing line, at that time they wouldn't have fired 70 rounds.
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | tasker224
![tasker224](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/174-90.jpg)
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 57 Location : North London
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:12 pm | |
| DB, the Times article LH posted is based on a report by "a sgt major" and does refer to apparent difficaulty fixing bayonets after having fired 70 rounds. I am sure you are right that bayonets would have been fixed sooner, but i share NA's apparent scepticism of an article not based on a named 1ry source. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Neil Aspinshaw
![Neil Aspinshaw](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/42-32.jpg)
Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:39 pm | |
| LH
70 rounds blasted away rapid, absolutely it'd be extremely hot, but were talking 70 (potential) in 1.5 hours, so no problem. Typically my Sunday is 40 rounds, these go in an hour and the heat is no problem.
The only time I really have found barrel heat a big problem when we did Fort Rinella in Malta October 2011, they used firework powder in their blanks, these turned Martinis into flame throwers, and the amount of magnesium caused unbelievably hot barrels and cartridge cases, it made bayonet fighting excercises hard going, we'd done 30 rounds for the display in 15 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPxVIPcLtrM I found the footage of use on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNEJlXT--Os&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_567745
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:53 pm | |
| Thanks Neil! |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 24th
![24th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/20-37.jpg)
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:31 am | |
| So if someone had fired 70 rounds. Would they be able to fix a bayonet to the rifle without getting burned. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Bayonet Against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:47 am | |
| 24th read Neil's last post , he gives you his answer ! . 90th |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 24th
![24th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/20-37.jpg)
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:05 am | |
| He is saying it makes bayonet fighting excerise harder, but not what I wanted to know. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | bill cainan
Posts : 225 Join date : 2011-09-19
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:18 am | |
| 24th
What Neil was saying (I believe) was that it depends over what period of time the 70 rounds were fired. If it's over an hour or longer, the barrel doesn't get that hot. However, even if the 70 rounds were fired over 6 or 7 minutes, then it is possible to fix the bayonet without your hand coming into contact with the barrel (if you're careful !), though, of course, not per the drill manual !
Bill |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | old historian2
![old historian2](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3-19.jpg)
Posts : 1093 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:21 am | |
| Thanks Bill, that's what I think we all wanted to hear. As the Artical is referring to Isandlwana I would imagine the barrels would have been extremely hot. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:42 pm | |
| 24th . Neil said if you fired the 70 rds in an hour and a half it wouldnt be a problem . Oldh2 . Dont forget as Neil has mentioned the old salts of the 24th had been around for a long time and certainly wouldve had an improvised non army standard sheath to allow for the heating of the Barrel . If all the troops fired their 70 rds it would have taken them an hour at least from the time the firing started till they were killed , so no doubt it wasnt to much trouble to fit their bayonets , as I said they were fairly experienced . One only has to look at the medal Roll to see this as the majority are issued the clasp 77-78-79 ! . I think you'll find the Barrels were a lot hotter at RD than at Isandlwana ! . 90th. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John
![John](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/21-9.jpg)
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:30 pm | |
| There are many reports that the soldiers were firing fast and hard. The barrels must have been glowing. Unless the whole barrel was covered in hide. Then it woud have been quite a nasty job fixing the bayonet as the bayonet housing would have been hot. Mind you with 20,000 Zulus come at you, a hot barrel would deter one from fixing his bayonet. If he had time!! |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ray63
![Ray63](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/899-82.jpg)
Posts : 705 Join date : 2012-05-05
![Bayonet against Assegai Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Bayonet against Assegai Tue May 13, 2014 8:52 pm | |
| In reply to article posted by LH first post in this discussion. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]The Aberdare Times. 22ndMarch 1879 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Bayonet against Assegai | |
|
Similar topics | ![+](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |