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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySat Jun 29, 2013 8:17 am

I've just finished reading ' Reminiscenses of the zulu war ' by Lt. John Maxwell who was in the 2 / 3rd NNC and was fortunate enough to have been out with Chelmesford . For those who have asked about the return to Isandlawana after the battle , the following is from Maxwell's diary .
'' My instructions were to cross the river at 2am on the 21st May '' , he goes on to say ; '' I noticed on this occasion that the stores of boots , haversacks etc which I had seen on our former visit on the 14th March had mostly disappeared , and that the effluvia arising was mild in comparison '' . He goes on to say ; '' I recognised the body of Lt Gibson ( Arthur 2 / 3rd NNC ) , he having joined us with the Honourable Verriker from Wood's column a few days before Isandlwana ''. He continues ; '' Some other bodies were recognised , amongst them the body of the Drum Major ( Possibly Bandmaster H.Bullard ; C 2260 p 96 ) his watch and I believe some 24 Pounds in cash were found on the body , my natives found some valuables which they handed to me - these were all claimed . Col Degacher claimed a valuable ring from me which he said he believed had belonged to his brother , who was killed in action . He would send it home to the widow , and in the event of it's not being so , would return it to me , or otherwisw let me know . Whether it was his brother's or not , I'm not aware , as he failed to inform me . I also obtained from the same source a valuable Diamond ring , claimed by Sub Insp F.L.Phillips NMP , and valuable papers both official and otherwise , which found their way through me into the hand's of those they belonged to . We were engaged some six weeks at this work , leaving RD at 2am , 3 times a week and returning by 5.30 pm. This was capital marching for the infantry , 24 miles on the road besides the work on the field in the 15 hours , Trek Oxen , with the necessary gear , drivers and foorloepers having been sent , 84 waggons were brought to Fort Melville . All in fair condition considering the lengthened exposure to all weathers they had sustained ''.
Cheers 90th.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySat Jun 29, 2013 9:42 am

90th
Remember a discussion we had a few weeks back on supplies being removed from the camp by the Zulu, after the 22nd?Salute 
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90th

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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySat Jun 29, 2013 10:26 am

Hi Frank .
Yes I do remember the conversation , as we said the Zuluu's did take a lot of items with them , basically they took what ever they could carry , some of which was dumped on their march back home when it became to difficult to keep carrying .
Cheers 90th.
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyFri Jul 05, 2013 7:32 pm

springbok9 wrote:
90th
Remember a discussion we had a few weeks back on supplies being removed from the camp by the Zulu, after the 22nd?Salute 

where there any or many sketches or photographs taking of the battle field at any of these visits
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DrummerBoy 16




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyFri Jul 05, 2013 8:09 pm

Three photo's were taken and there's a good sketch of the field in Ian Knights book Zulu Rising i think.


Cheers
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyFri Jul 05, 2013 8:19 pm

DrummerBoy 16 wrote:
Three photo's were taken and there's a good sketch of the field in Ian Knights book Zulu Rising i think.


Cheers

such a shame there were not more taking
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyFri Jul 05, 2013 8:25 pm

lamplight52 wrote:
DrummerBoy 16 wrote:
Three photo's were taken and there's a good sketch of the field in Ian Knights book Zulu Rising i think.


Cheers

such a shame there were not more taking

did any one find pulliens remains on the battlefield
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impi

impi


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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyFri Jul 05, 2013 10:07 pm

Browne is the only one that claims to have seen Pullienes body. But could not recall the location. There is a sketch on the forum somewhere. I doub't it's true?
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySat Jul 06, 2013 5:32 am

impi wrote:
Browne is the only one that claims to have seen Pullienes body. But could not recall the location. There is a sketch on the forum somewhere. I doub't it's true?

thanks for that...anther mystery i guess.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySun Jul 07, 2013 10:33 pm

Sergeant R Smith - 1st Kings Dragoon Guards
On arriving back in camp on the Sunday our orders was to go to Isandula next morning to commence to bury our comrades of the 24th Royal Artillery and volunteers that was killed there. We marched next morning at 3 o'clock. Half of us had to walk on account of having more men for working and the remainder of men mounted for look out party. This work lasted about a fortnight. Every day we went, and as only about 40 could be spared from camp and the 24th that lay beside us was not allowed to go for they did not want them to see their comrades and they were left half way between us and our camp on lookout and to help us if wanted to, it was not a very comfortable duty. I for myself did not like it as we had to dig holes by the side of each and the ground rocky to make it worse for us but it must be done, so we had to settle down to it the best we could. On account of us having to dig so close to the bodies was because when they were moved, not only the stench but fell to pieces and would have been worse but their clothes held them together a great deal.

Source: Queens Dragoon Guards
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Jul 08, 2013 1:27 pm

lamplight52 wrote:
lamplight52 wrote:
DrummerBoy 16 wrote:
Three photo's were taken and there's a good sketch of the field in Ian Knights book Zulu Rising i think.


Cheers

such a shame there were not more taking

did any one find pulliens remains on the battlefield

Lamplight52
This was the Sketch of Browne Saluting Pulliene's body.
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Jul 08, 2013 6:32 pm

Chard1879 wrote:
lamplight52 wrote:
lamplight52 wrote:
DrummerBoy 16 wrote:
Three photo's were taken and there's a good sketch of the field in Ian Knights book Zulu Rising i think.


Cheers

such a shame there were not more taking

did any one find pulliens remains on the battlefield

Lamplight52
This was the Sketch of Browne Saluting Pulliene's body.
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great sketch..but very fabricated me thinks...just not sure if hamilton brown can be trusted.
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Jul 08, 2013 8:05 pm

We will never know!!! Still he writes very well. He writes the kind of book that should be read You need to study mo  on a Winters day, with a nice glass or port or two.agree
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lamplight52




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Jul 08, 2013 8:35 pm

old historian2 wrote:
We will never know!!! Still he writes very well. He writes the kind of book that should be read You need to study mo  on a Winters day, with a nice glass or port or two.agree

good idea
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90th

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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st May 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 9:13 am

OH2
I enjoyed his book , and your idea is a sound one . It's certainly worth a read .
90th.
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DrummerBoy 16




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 10:44 am

lamplight52

Browne, Shepstone, Glyn and a Dragoon i think all claimed to have seen Pulleine's body.



Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st May 1879.   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 11:44 am

I think Drummer Boy is correct , I've posted a couple of other sightings of Pulleine's body on here previously . I cant remember which books they were in . Maybe try  '' Pulleine's body '' in the search box . DB was it a dragoon or a Colonial trooper who claimed to have seen Pulleine's body ?.
90th.
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DrummerBoy 16




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 11:58 am

90th

It might have been a Lancer, the guy said he say the Colonel of the 24th surrounded by a pack of playing cards.



Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st May 79   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 pm

Yes I seem to remember reading something like that as well .
90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 6:36 pm

DrummerBoy 16 wrote:
90th

It might have been a Lancer, the guy said he say the Colonel of the 24th surrounded by a pack of playing cards.



Cheers

my god...you mean he was playing cards at the time Shocked 
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 9:39 pm

Was it it not Browne who said that. I'm sure it was.
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DrummerBoy 16




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Jul 09, 2013 10:50 pm

Its not Browne.



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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 12:37 am

Originally posted by Dave.

Subject: Re: LT COL HENRY PULLEINE.   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Not sure who wrote this. But it appears to be another eyewitness account of seeing Pulleine's body at Isandlwana.

"So far I have found only one, from a man in the 17th Lancers: 'I enclose you a card of four of diamonds which lay close to the colonel of the 24th (i.e., Lt Col Pulleine). They had evidently been playing cards, for a whole pack was kicked about, lots of music, too, I picked up'"

Extract from: The Anglo-Zulu War as Depicted in Soldiers' Letters By Frank Emery.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 7:32 am

There is also another sighting that places Pulleines body close to Durnfords. I will try and locate it.

Cheers
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DrummerBoy 16




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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 9:06 am

Springbok

This one ?

THE GLAMOUR
AND THE TRAGEDY OF THE ZULU WAR by W.H. CLEMENTS printed in 1936. And he states

" CAPT. OFFY SHEPSTONE , searching over the ground where he remembered having noticed some bodies lying
on the night that Lord Chelmsford"s column bivouacked there on the 22nd Jan , at the mouth of the neck in
the rear of the camp , stumbled on the corpses of COLONELS DURNFORD and PULLEINE , and also that of
LT DURRANT - SCOTT of the Natal Carbineers "


Cheers
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 9:09 am

Db these are the other two reports

Lt Milnes report states that Pulleins body was recognised by Col Glyn 23rd Jan.

Charles Tathum, Carbineers, said the bodies of Pulleine and Durnford were found with the 24th, NMP and Volunteers who made the last stand.

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 9:14 am

On Mainwarings map of the graves he mentions: Durnford, Wardell, Dyer, Scott, Bradstreet, Hitchcock. As all being in the same place. Pulleine isnt specifically mentioned but there was one other officer of the 24th who was unrecognisable.

Cheers
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptySun Dec 01, 2013 11:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The date appears to be wrong?
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Dec 02, 2013 8:26 am

Chard1879,

Sorry I can't see the date that you are on about, but that is a sketch of Chelmsford's return to iSandlwana on 22nd January 1879, with the rest of No. 3 Column.

That sketch was worked up into an engraving that appears in The Illustrated London News.

John Y.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Dec 02, 2013 4:40 pm

Chard, it was the return to the camp by LC force after the Battle 22nd Jan 1879
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Dave

Dave


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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Dec 02, 2013 7:32 pm

Why did I think it was pitch black when they returned. Tripping over the dead ect!
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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Dec 02, 2013 10:32 pm

Dave, it was! Salute 
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Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyMon Dec 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Below is the original image, sketch at the time they arrived at the camp!
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Return to Isandlwana 21st mat 1879    Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Dec 03, 2013 5:35 am

Dave
It would be a little pointless showing the column arriving back in darkness wouldnt it ? Very Happy , It's called artistic licence I suppose .
90th
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littlehand

littlehand


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PostSubject: Re: Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879   Return to Isandlwana 21st may 1879 EmptyTue Dec 03, 2013 9:44 am

Ray63 wrote:
Below is the original image, sketch at the time they arrived at the camp!
Nice image!
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