Isandhlwana: Fate of Godwin Austin and Pope

Posts : 3458 Join date : 2021-01-04

Good afternoon Frank
Think we all tend to take photos from the same angle to get 'that' backdrop.
Apart from the first one, I can't seem to make your photos any bigger to look at the detail. Are they cropped and then enlarged from another image?
This photo is a little closer from May this year and you should be able to zoom right in.
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(Kate B collection)

Kate my uploading skills are akin to my dog playing fetch Im afraid. I will e mail you the photo in question so you can do a zoom. Im not saying there are screw markings but then again im not saying there arent. Bit like Steve Borthwick saying maybe we can win but maybe we can not. Very Happy

Frank

Posted on behalf of Tim Needham.
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Posts : 303 Join date : 2011-10-18 Location : Cornwall

Thank you Pete.

Just to confirm, the first photo is the cross within the Colonial Cemetery when intact, the second is George Shepstone's - different sizes but very similar in terms of proportion.

Regards,

Tim

Tim
In the first of your photos at the point where the vertical and horizontal parts of the cross intersect, does there seem to be visible a central square shape around which there has been weathering?
Or is it just wishful thinking on my part?

I think that any marks would be on the other face, even though it seems wrong.

Frank
I was wondering about weathering left around where there had once been a plaque. It's possible it could have been on that face, if there was space.

Hopefully the insitu inspection wont be to delayed. The graves themselves in the colonial area have been radically changed around over the years. My first visit was in 69 and there was at that time more separation. The water flow down the slope did cause a significant amount of damage resulting in a rebuild.
Unfortunatly in those days of photography less shots were taken because of the costs involved.

Posts : 303 Join date : 2011-10-18 Location : Cornwall

Julian,

I do see what you mean about an apparent square shape (although it does seem an odd place for a square plaque to have been affixed as it wouldn't be central to the cross itself).

Also, Frank's guesstimate that the stem of the cross is approx. 100mm wide (about 4 inches) and Rai's thoughts that the Pope plaque was around 8 inches square means that the top corner screws in the plaque potentially wouldn't have anything to screw into.

That's of course if these approximate measurements are reasonably accurate!

Regards,

Tim

Just my wishful thinking then!

I have just received the following from a friend.

"I have a high res pic of the base taken in December 2022 it is of the side that is facing the grave. There is at least two spots which could possibly be a hole filled with whitewash. Please see attached photo. "

As soon as I can figure out the photo transfer I will post it.

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Give up!

Frank
Scan and E-mail it to Admin so that he can post it.

Frank
Was the distance between the 'holes' mentioned at all by your friend?

Posted on Behalf of Frank Allewell.

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Bottom right of the stone is that text ST or am I imagining it?

JY

The other face will be available shortly.
Julian I measure the base quite a number of years ago and I seem to recolect it was around 280 mm. If Rai's plate was 8 inches, 200mm with the screw hole inset from that the holes would be around 170mm c/c. The possible holes, to be confirmed, in the plate are around 50mm in from the edge so giving a similar spacing.
Hopefully we will have full details soon.

Frank

John, looks like I had thoughts it could be AST

Frank,

Thanks for clarifying.

JY

John
Ive asked my friend to take a bottle of water and spray the face, hopefully that would bring up and text wihout damaging the face.

Frank

Frank,

Good thinking Batman!

JY

Or use the mirror trick, even better!
The two holes can clearly be seen.
As for the lettering I can certainly see ST but not the A - could it be an E as in rEST in peace?

I have been looking at the letters some members are seeing. I’m thinking in was just algae formation. But I’m seeing the word “Last”

Posted on behalf of Tim Needham.
Just another peculiarity I've noticed regarding the broken cross in the Colonial Cemetery, in particular its apparent positioning in relation to Trooper Blaikie's grave in a handful of photos I've looked at....

Photo 1: Taken by me 2007

Photo 2: Found online with caption 'c.1946'

Photo 3: Courtesy John Young

Photo 4: Found online

If you look at the first two (& most recent) photos, the face of the cross' base points broadly in the direction of Blaikie's horizontal gravestone.

However, if you look at the third & fourth images the cross appears to be facing a different direction altogether and on a completely different axis (i.e. the 'side' of the cross is facing Blaikie); I'm wondering then whether the positioning of the cross was altered at some point?

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That's a really fine decision. Too close to call.

Tim I would fully agree, the cross has been moved at some point, at least once. In an 1880's photo it faces directly onto the saddle and as you have pointed out it now faces more or less south. The graves themselves have been rebuilt on a number of occasions, significantly because of water erosion in the area at one stage. It has, as your sequence indicates also been moved from 'North' of the cairn to 'South' and two cairns have been joined into one larger one.

Frank

Frank/Tim
I was looking at it from the wrong angle. I see now what you mean. You are quite right.

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