WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne : The sentries report Zulus to the southwest. Thousands of them.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.
Bourne DCM EmptyToday at 8:56 pm by WeekendWarrior

» Experiences During the Zulu War
Bourne DCM EmptyToday at 8:12 pm by sekukuni

» Duck, Veterinary Colonel Francis, CB, AVD, PRCVS
Bourne DCM EmptyToday at 6:12 pm by 1879graves

» Zulu War to Boer war. Those who served in both.
Bourne DCM EmptyToday at 5:38 pm by Kenny

» 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, September 1879
Bourne DCM EmptyFri Mar 05, 2021 5:28 pm by Kenny

» Shepstone's last stand
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 11:34 pm by WeekendWarrior

» CUNNINGHAM
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 6:36 pm by WeekendWarrior

» Mr. C.C. Harding, of Dundee,
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 5:12 pm by ltoselli

» Mainwaring, Colonel Henry Germain
Bourne DCM EmptyTue Mar 02, 2021 1:51 pm by gardner1879

» William Papworth. Alan Gardner's servant.
Bourne DCM EmptyMon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 am by Frank Allewell

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 28, 2021 11:18 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu War Naval Quiz
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 28, 2021 2:43 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Major SIR BARTLE COMPTON ARTHUR FRERE
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 28, 2021 8:11 am by ADMIN

» The Case for an Attempt to Save the 2-24th Colours
Bourne DCM EmptyFri Feb 26, 2021 11:09 am by Kenny

» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Feb 25, 2021 10:40 pm by 90th

» Pte John William Jones Davies
Bourne DCM EmptyTue Feb 23, 2021 8:42 pm by Tim Needham

» Soldier: 99th Regiment
Bourne DCM EmptySat Feb 20, 2021 1:10 pm by Peter35

» 1/24th Soldiers first names required
Bourne DCM EmptyFri Feb 19, 2021 10:08 pm by 90th

» Rorke's Drift: Corp. Key, Ptes. John Jones and Lynch
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Feb 18, 2021 11:59 am by Julian Whybra

» Brave Natal Volunteer. Any ideas who he is?
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Feb 18, 2021 4:53 am by Frank Allewell

» Private Arthur Wood, 3rd Dragoon Guards.
Bourne DCM EmptyTue Feb 16, 2021 6:05 pm by ADMIN

» Charles Edward Luard
Bourne DCM EmptyMon Feb 15, 2021 8:00 am by ADMIN

» Surgeon-Lieutenant-Colonel D. B. Brown.
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 12:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sir Henry Evelyn Wood VC, GCB, GCMG
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 11:47 am by ADMIN

» The sick at Rorke's Drift
Bourne DCM EmptySat Feb 13, 2021 5:12 pm by Phil L

» Zulu War Trivia and Quiz
Bourne DCM EmptyFri Feb 12, 2021 11:21 pm by 90th

» The Natal Mounted Police have almost been forgotten.
Bourne DCM EmptyThu Feb 11, 2021 6:36 am by aalunste

» TV tonight - Tue 9 Feb 2021
Bourne DCM EmptyTue Feb 09, 2021 5:37 pm by Kenny

» Major-General Sir Ronald Bertram Lane
Bourne DCM EmptyMon Feb 08, 2021 4:45 pm by ADMIN

» Lt.Col. C. Tucker, Commanding Officer 80th (Staffordshire) Regiment.
Bourne DCM EmptyMon Feb 08, 2021 3:01 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon-Major HENRY JAGOE, M.B
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 07, 2021 4:40 pm by 1879graves

» Harts Military Lists N.L.S. Index search page numbers. A useful list.
Bourne DCM EmptySun Feb 07, 2021 9:44 am by gardner1879

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Bourne DCM EmptySat Feb 06, 2021 11:39 pm by ADMIN

» DAVID FRANCIS LEWIS
Bourne DCM EmptySat Feb 06, 2021 10:42 pm by ADMIN

» Major F. M. E. Vibart
Bourne DCM EmptySat Feb 06, 2021 10:36 pm by ADMIN

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
VC’s Rorkes Drift 1879
"
Top posters
90th
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
littlehand
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
ADMIN
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
1879graves
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
rusteze
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
John
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
gardner1879
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
WeekendWarrior
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Kenny
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
sekukuni
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
ltoselli
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Peter35
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
1879graves
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Isandula
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
SRB1965
Bourne DCM Bar_leftBourne DCM BarBourne DCM Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
harford 24th Woolfryes williams john Police martini Franklin Durnford Isandlwana Russell spalding George drift smith james Natal henry zulu payne melvill horse Prince Mounted carbineers taylor
 

 Bourne DCM

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 10, 2016 4:04 pm

What did Bourne do to received the DCM
Back to top Go down
nthornton1979

nthornton1979

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-01-18
Age : 41
Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 10, 2016 11:54 pm

Hi Dave,

I don't believe there was one specific 'stand-out' act for which the medal was awarded. Frustratingly Bourne did not really describe any of his own actions when later recounting the battle so detail is distinctly lacking in that respect.

I believe he was awarded the DCM for his overall performance of inspiring the men and for the way he conducted himself. In one of his accounts Bourne says that he was constantly moving around the men and he praised their steadfastness. Evidently he was constantly doing the rounds, checking in on his lads and keeping their spirits up.

We do get a few small snippets of information from others. Hitch described Bourne holding the corner section where the north wall met the retrenchment barricade during the hospital evacuation and Chard mentioned him as one of those who stood out in the battle. Other than that we don't have much to go on.

It has been said that Bourne accompanied Bromhead and his small party of men in clearing the hospital compound at the point of the bayonet but I am not aware of the source that names Bourne actually taking part in this. Either I've missed it, or authors have simply assumed he would have been there and included him.

It has also been claimed that Bourne should have got the VC but this, in my opinion, it utter rubbish. The main reason being that we have very little material to base an opinion on.

If any of the DCM recipients deserve a VC it is Private Roy. That man truly did go above and beyond.

Neil
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000

Posts : 1189
Join date : 2015-11-24

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyTue Oct 11, 2016 12:52 pm

I agree with Neil..here is the Bourne account..the images
merely facilitated the attachment of the audio file onto
an mp4..any and all copywrite acknowledge..



For those of you out there who have not heard this.

Produced and Edited by David Allen and Josephine Bloom..2009.
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptySun Oct 16, 2016 9:22 am

It was said that he turned down the VC. Is this true or just a rumour. ?
Back to top Go down
nthornton1979

nthornton1979

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-01-18
Age : 41
Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptySun Oct 16, 2016 11:02 am

It's false Dave, there was no 'offer' of a VC.

He was offered a commission but turned it down due to the financial implications/commitments that would come with it.

It's a common myth that he opted for a commission instead of a VC (In fact, directly following Rorke's Drift he received neither) Many people do say that he should have got the VC for his part in the battle but I've yet to meet one who can provide a valid argument for this. I fear they have simply read it somewhere and are repeating the flawed notion.

Another contributing factor, I feel, is the movie 'Zulu'. Bourne is a 'favourite' of many people due to Mr. Green's stand-out performance in the film and their perception is strongly influenced by this.

Recently, a chap (who runs an online social media group dedicated to Rorke's Drift) posted that it was a travesty that Bourne didn't get a VC. When I asked for a reason why he thought so, he replied with something along the lines of 'because he's great'... Says it all really.


Neil


Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 8:27 am

Thanks Neil.So the VC rumour was false, I wonder how that rumour started, was it started by Bourne himself or members of his family?
Back to top Go down
nitro450

nitro450

Posts : 152
Join date : 2015-01-21
Age : 75
Location : Sydney, Australia

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 10:01 am

That rumour is rife aound the place, but.... you don't get the DCM for just standing around looking nicely dressed !!! Obviously he must have impressed the two officers.
Nitro450 Salute
Back to top Go down
nthornton1979

nthornton1979

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-01-18
Age : 41
Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 9:01 pm

Dave wrote:
Thanks Neil.So the VC rumour was false, I wonder how that rumour started, was it started by Bourne himself or members of his family?

I don't when (or by whom) it was started Dave, but it didn't come from Bourne himself.

I suspect it is more recent but without delving into it in detail I couldn't pin it down to the source

Neil
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 9:05 pm

Chards report to QV.
"It is impossible for one individual to see all, but I particularly myself noticed the behaviour of Colour Sergeant Bourne 24tth, Private McMahon, AHC, Privates Roy, Deacon, Bush, Cole ,Jenkins 24th, and many others.
Not really an explanation as to why he deserved the DCM
Back to top Go down
nthornton1979

nthornton1979

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-01-18
Age : 41
Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 9:29 pm

Agreed, there is no thorough explanation - That's what I was referring to in my first comment when I mentioned the 'snippets' of information, which, in reality, are nothing more than small mentions in the narratives of others who were there.

Interestingly, Chard would have been unfamiliar with the vast majority of the men who were present and as such would not have known their names. This explains why he singled out both Jenkins and Bushe - he had direct contact with both men (Jenkins ducked his head and Bushe borrowed him his blood-stained rag), which provided the opportunity for him to get their names.

As Bourne was the Colour-Sergeant, Chard would have known who he was, hence he would have 'noticed' him more than others. The same would apply to those dressed diffierently - Rev. Smith, Dalton, Schiess et al - they were easily distinguishable and feature heavily in numeorus accounts as 'standing out' for their gallantry. Certainly they were gutsy buggers and thoroughly deserve the praise, but on the flip side, any red-coat, fighitng harder, better, and more heroic than the man next to him, would almost certainly have gone unoticed by most. In a line of men, all dressed the same, it would be extremely difficult to observe the actions of one over the other.

Returning to Bourne - it is frustrating that there isn't more information about the part he played during the battle, but a lack of material does not mean that the award was undeserved or unwarranted (I'm not for one minute insinuating that you believe this to be the case, I'm merely covering that base)

It is also distinctly possible (probable) that Chard had no say in the award of Bourne's DCM, as he was not consulted on any of the VCs (not at the recomendation stage anyhow)

Neil
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879

Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Bourne DCM Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bourne DCM   Bourne DCM EmptyMon Oct 17, 2016 10:53 pm

""Frank Bourne was 24 years old at the time of Rorke's Drift. He had reached the rank of Colour Sergeant after only 6 years service - he was a high flyer. He was offered a commission immediately after RD but declined the offer. His role in the defence was significant - in posting the sentries and ensuring the supply of ammunition. His DCM came with a pension of £10 pa - the same monetary award as the VC winners."
Source RDVC
Back to top Go down
 
Bourne DCM
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: