WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Information on Zungen Nek ??????
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyYesterday at 9:46 pm by IqhaweWeb

» Rorkes drift Hotel
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Jul 10, 2020 4:57 am by aussie inkosi

» Staff College, Camberley. Class of 1880-1
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 08, 2020 6:46 pm by Beckwith

» Pete Smith Cottage.
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Jul 07, 2020 6:29 am by 90th

» Lt C. Williams KIA Hlobane
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Jul 07, 2020 5:09 am by 90th

» Diamond Fields Horse in Zululand
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Jul 07, 2020 4:58 am by 90th

» Buffalo Border Guard Anonymous Letter
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 11:42 pm by Julian Whybra

» Surgn. J. McGann. A. M. Dept
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 11:07 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel William Henry Dowling Reeves Welman, 99th
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 10:54 pm by ADMIN

» Commander C. Lindsay.
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 10:42 pm by ADMIN

» Reopening National Archives
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 10:01 pm by Bill8183

» S.SMITH Buffalo Border Guard
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 1:48 pm by Julian Whybra

» NNC Officer List
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 1:45 pm by Ells

» One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jul 06, 2020 7:37 am by Julian Whybra

» N Batt 5th Bde RA
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Jul 04, 2020 11:52 am by Rory Reynolds

» Questions of Time and Place at Isandlwana
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Jul 03, 2020 12:38 pm by Frank Allewell

» Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Jul 03, 2020 6:06 am by SRB1965

» Malicious malware on this site
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 02, 2020 10:26 pm by intombe

» Zulu Victory - Views?
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 02, 2020 6:52 pm by WeekendWarrior

» Isandlwana Survivor photo's
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 02, 2020 3:56 pm by Julian Whybra

» Anyone got information on this.
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Captn. H. G. Bowen, 88th Foot
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 02, 2020 1:18 pm by gstew88

» The South Africa Medal to HMS Forester - an anomaly?
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 01, 2020 7:41 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Lieut. R. F. Dixon NMR
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 01, 2020 5:01 am by 90th

» Next month's DNW medal auction
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 am by 90th

» Zulu war medals on eBay
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jun 29, 2020 5:14 pm by SergioD

» John Basten
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Jun 28, 2020 1:20 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Lieutenant Walter Robert Higginson NNC
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Jun 28, 2020 11:19 am by ciroferrara

» Letter home from Eshowe
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jun 25, 2020 2:24 pm by Blackcat

» Melvill's Revolver Cylinder
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jun 25, 2020 10:05 am by Drummer Boy 14

» Assistant Commissary W. Winspear Commissariat Department, present at Gingindlovu
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Jun 22, 2020 12:05 pm by ADMIN

» Orders to laager at Isandhlwana
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 pm by SRB1965

» morale and the siege at Eshowe
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Jun 19, 2020 9:58 am by Blackcat

» CUNNINGHAM
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Jun 19, 2020 8:43 am by Julian Whybra

» ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Jun 13, 2020 6:21 am by 90th

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Rorke's Drift A Soldier's Story with presenter Major John Thomas
Top posters
90th
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
littlehand
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
ADMIN
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
1879graves
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
rusteze
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
John
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Frank Allewell
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
90th
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
WeekendWarrior
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
ADMIN
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Rory Reynolds
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
John Young
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Ells
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Brett Hendey
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
SRB1965
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane BarJohn Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 3
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Adding to the Library
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.

 

 John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane

Go down 
AuthorMessage
steve.333



Posts : 37
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 12:47 am

Re Cpl J Archer of the Border Horse, Hlobane survivor discussed in this topic: https://www.1879zuluwar.com/t1910p200-isandlwana-surviviors#89390

One thing troubles me ...
My gg uncle John W W Archer is mentioned on the Boer War rolls of 3 units - Ashburners Light Horse, Western Light Horse and Field Intell Dept.
His rank in these units was Tpr, Tpr, Guide respectively.

So ... if he was a corporal in the Border Horse in 1879 and 20 years later joined Ashburner's, would he keep his rank or start from the bottom again?

On the Western Light Horse Boer War rolls there are two John W Archers (on the same page), one a Tpr the other a SSM. Very confusing!
So naturally the question arises - which John Archer took part in Hlobane - my relative or the other John W?

Would appreciate any views on this.

Steve

Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 806
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 6:03 am

steve.333 wrote:


So ... if he was a corporal in the Border Horse in 1879 and 20 years later joined Ashburner's, would he keep his rank or start from the bottom again?


I would say given the time that elapsed and the fact he was a non commissioned officer - he would have to start from scratch (unless he was head hunted?)

Much could have happened to his character in the intervening years.......obviously if he still had some ability. his former rank may have sped up promotion.

Had he transferred to Ashburners, I could see him retaining his rank.

Cheers

Sime

Back to top Go down
steve.333



Posts : 37
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 6:42 am

Thanks for that Sime. I think you are right. A lot can happen in 20 years. And these colonial units were created quickly as the situation required. Once the fighting was over, it would have been civilian life as usual for most of the men.
Back to top Go down
steve.333



Posts : 37
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Aug 05, 2018 10:32 pm

I did read somewhere that these colonial units where quite democratically organized and that officers particularly were often voted in by the men, form among the NCOs
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 806
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Aug 06, 2018 9:00 am

Hi,

I too have read that colonial/militia units elected their officers - there was a big yahoo when Chelmsford replaced Dartnell as CO of the mounted elements of the Centre Column (with Russell, maybe?) and the units were not happy (Colonial officers were not allowed to command regulars) and a compromise had to be settled on, because 'Brexit' loomed

I also believe that many of the smaller units or individuals within them, could opt not to campaign outside their own locality - and that they were lured into Zululand by the idea of farmland & bounty.....most of which never came to fruition.

You will probably find that previous military commission and or social standing (magistrates etc) went a long way to securing the mandate for command. If you think about it, the Zulu War would have been a great adventure for these 'weekend warriors' - perhaps the only chance they had to fire their carbines in anger.....

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
steve.333



Posts : 37
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Aug 06, 2018 10:50 pm

There probably would have been some weekend warriors, but I imagine many were pretty serious about protecting their hard won interests in the area.

I like the idea that some of them had the hope that they would get land and bounty in Zululand. Being colonials, the idea of moving to a new place with less rules restrictions was in their blood!

There was another factor that contributed to who was in the unit and with what rank - family connections. There were very few people of European origin in those remote areas, so families inter-married and those bonds were strong - they depended on each other for survival!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 806
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Aug 07, 2018 8:30 am

Hi Steve,

When I said 'weekend warriors' it was not meant to be derogatory and they would have been very serious about their role.

However that said, I wonder how many 'full musters' the BBG, or Newcastle Mtd Rifles or Natal Hussars etc attended in a year - obviously in times of heightened tension the units may have mustered more - the BBG was formed in 1873 - probably out of concern during Langalibalele's Rebellion.

Cheers

Sime


Back to top Go down
steve.333



Posts : 37
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Aug 07, 2018 10:22 pm

Hi Sime - no explanation needed on your part.

There is an interesting discussion of the Colonial Unit here http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol045sm.html

My synopsis:

Natal units vs Transvaal/Cape units
differences:
- in Natal, commando service was legally applicable but rarely enforced, and was much disliked
- the residents preferred organized, uniformed, mounted units patterned on British Yeomanry regiments
- in Transvaal and Cape, the Commando system was a characteristic of the population
- the loosely organized highly individualistic Boer Commando represented a rurally orientated society
- these Commando units had no identical counterparts in Natal
- the more urbanized communities had stronger group loyalties so prefered an organized military approach
- typical Natal settler, a white man in a mass of natives, never liked the use of non-European levies as in the Cape
- when Britain refused to provide Imperial reinforcements, a native contingent became necessary and the Governor consented

similarities
- democratic character - officers were elected by the regiment, usually from among the NCOs
- all found their own horses, saddlery and uniforms
- neither were amenable to an institution which demanded a rigid hierarchy of command and obedience
- the Colonial volunteers and irregular mounted units were largely mushroom creations in response to the war
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty

Back to top Go down
 
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: ZULU WAR BATTLES-
Jump to: