Latest topics | » 100,000 posts!Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnSat Mar 16, 2024 2:47 pm by jgregory » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds » August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan » Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra » Letter of officer during Zulu wars.Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra » About the second invasionTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th » Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young » Watford band boys killed at iSandlwanaFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra » Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th » Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997 » What was the distance?Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan » Mrs Henry HookTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny » "With 6 good riflemen"Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper » What was G company supposed to do?Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra » Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William WylieFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young » South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60thFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody » Weatherleys Border Horse FlagThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie » Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-TynteTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg » How many started?Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra » Firing Line formationMon Jan 22, 2024 2:32 pm by Julian Whybra » Why did Maj. Spalding have to go ?Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:40 pm by Stefaan » Grape-shot at close range.Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:42 am by SRB1965 » Books Hlobane & KambulaTue Jan 09, 2024 10:08 am by John Young |
March 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » 100,000 posts!Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick » British rations and moraleWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell » About the second invasionSat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes » Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young » Letter of officer during Zulu wars.Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:46 pm by Will M » Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:24 am by ADMIN |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
cetewayo
Posts : 24 Join date : 2012-05-30 Location : United States
| Subject: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:29 am | |
| Does anyone know if there are any sources which indicate what jackets each of the officers of the 24th were wearing at Isandlwana? I know it’s well known that Melvill was wearing a red tunic and Coghill was wearing a blue patrol jacket. It’s my understanding that Pulleine also wore a blue patrol jacket, but I’m not sure if that’s based on anything I’ve read, or whether I have that impression because that’s what he was wearing in Zulu Dawn. I’m aware of the photo of Porteous, Cavaye, and Degacher from November of 1878 in which Porteous and Degacher are wearing patrol jackets and Cavaye has a red tunic but I don’t know if this means that is what they would have worn at Isandlwana. I don’t have any information on any other officers. If anyone has any insight or can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1198 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:58 am | |
| Hi,
I think you may struggle as to what the various officers wore on the day.
I would have thought it would have been whatever tunic/jacket the officer felt comfortable in - patrol jacket or tunic
John Young should be able to give you more info about the dress regulations but whether these were adhered to on the day.....in campaign situations probably not so much
This is of no relevance to your question but Carey (of Prince Napoleon infamy) wore a non regulation patrol jacket because he lost his baggage in a ship wreck and had to borrow one.
Gonville Bromhead could have favoured a OR tunic, with insignia removed (not sure of the sources but that is what I have read).
Bromhead's brothers' campaign jacket still exists (as does the bullet hole) but what pattern it is, John only knows......
I would spose it rather depends on what was in fashion with fellow officers etc
There may be references when the bodies were spotted on the 22/23rd or buried later - some officers were identified by their uniform remnants.
Ta
Sime |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:20 am | |
| Im sure there is a reference to a comment that was made regarding all the officers that escaped were wearing blue ? This was offered as a reason why they did escape whereas all the others wearing red were killed. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:41 am | |
| Smith Dorrien "I heard afterwards that [the Zulus] had been told by their King Cetywayo that black coats were civilians and were not worth killing. I had a blue patrol jacket on, and it is noticeable that the only five officers who escaped....had blue coats. I rode through unheeded, and shortly after was passed by Lieutenant Coghill, wearing a blue patrol and cord breeches and riding a red roan horse. "
Hope that helps |
| | | ciroferrara
Posts : 284 Join date : 2010-10-07 Age : 32 Location : exeter
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:41 pm | |
| Hi all It is Frederick Godwin-Austins brother whose jacket still exists in the Brecon museum. The bullet holes came about during the month cape frontier war when a soldier in he's company accidentally discharged his rifle. I will try and find a picture Cheers Ciroferrara |
| | | ciroferrara
Posts : 284 Join date : 2010-10-07 Age : 32 Location : exeter
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:45 pm | |
| |
| | | cetewayo
Posts : 24 Join date : 2012-05-30 Location : United States
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:15 pm | |
| Thank you everyone for the information. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1198 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:10 am | |
| - ciroferrara wrote:
- Hi all
It is Frederick Godwin-Austins brother whose jacket still exists in the Brecon museum. The bullet holes came about during the month cape frontier war when a soldier in he's company accidentally discharged his rifle. I will try and find a picture Cheers Ciroferrara Of course, silly me.....that's probably why a Google search (to get a quick photo) of 'Bromheads jacket' kept coming up with a garage music group....... |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1198 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:14 am | |
| Hi Frank,
Never been too convinced by that idea.....at one time I was trying to draw up a data base of escapees and possible jacket colours but it got very confusing when I figured out that a IMI or Rocketeer could have ditched his red jacket in the heat of the day and panic of the fight.....so I ground to a halt....
Cheers
Sime |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3229 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:50 am | |
| Cetewayo, This is from Dress Regulations for the Officers of the Army. Published on 1st November 1874. Under the section Infantry - The Line, gives us another option that of: Second tunic. - Of light cloth or serge; in all other respects the same as the dress tunic. It is at the option of officers to provide themselves with this article or not. Then there is the so-called scarlet or Indian-pattern patrol. As depicted in the attached photograph of Lt. Teignmouth Melvill, V.C. - [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Lt. T. Melivill, V.C., 1st/24th Sorry for the poor quality of the image, but I can’t lay my hands of the original at the present time. JY |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:24 am | |
| Hi Simon Smith Dorriens concept, but it does answer the question as to what was being worn by the Fugitive officers. As for the rest, take a guess or ask Boris, he seems to rather good at doing that. Our lot cant spell the word ! |
| | | WeekendWarrior
Posts : 268 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:45 pm | |
| Anstey was discovered wearing cord riding breeches. As stated above, the source is that the Imperial Officers who survived wore blue patrol jackets. Melvill wore a red tunic and Coghill a patrol jacket. Durnford wore a blue patrol jacket with a red? RE vest underneath. |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1198 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:06 am | |
| I prefer to think that survival or not depended on:- Where someone was (ie the Company officers on the firing line, with their men - could have been wearing anything and they were on a sticky wicket) If transport was available - Company Officers would not have had ready access to a horse. And finally if the officers in question had a reason to stick it out (I'm not debating Mel & Cogs actions or casting aspersions here.... ) - it has been said that the 'lucky five' had no command (from the start or remaining) or reason to stay behind. If you think about it - half, if not more of the British army didn't wear red coats - and all (?) of the survivors had or got a horse.......the part of the army who didn't have access to horses (generally and excepting the IMI & rocketeers) were the 'redcoats' Spose we'll never know but I can imagine how HSD could come to that conclusion, when he'd got his breath back. Cheers Sime |
| | | | Question Regarding the Uniforms of the Officers of the 24th at Isandlwana | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |