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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
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» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
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» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
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» Cpl John Lyons
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» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
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» What happened next
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» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
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» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
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» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
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» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
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» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
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» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
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» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
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» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
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» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
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» Quarter-Master William London
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» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
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» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
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» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
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» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
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» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
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» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
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» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
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» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
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» England's Sons 9th edition
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» Strange tales from Isandlwana
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» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
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» Militaria Sale
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» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
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» Malicious website
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» Rorkes drift Hotel
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» Durnford's medical officer
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» Charles Sparks - any information available?
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 A Victoria Cross holder.

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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyThu Oct 01, 2009 10:56 pm

Is this correct.
A Victoria Cross holder could loose his VC if he committed a crime in civilian life, even years after leaving the army.

What I don’t understand is this.

He was awarded his VC for Valour while serving in the armed forces. So why should he have it taken away if he commits a crime, when not in the army. I can understand him losing it if he committed a crime whilst still in the army, but not after he had left.

If he had committed a crime while serving in the army before he was awarded the VC would he have still received the VC?

Doe’s this applies to today’s VC Holders. And did this depend on the type of Crime (i.e.) Murder.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10131
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: vc"s forfeited.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 1:11 am

hi john.
Yes it is true, you could loose your V.C if you committed a serious crime, not sure how many have been forfeited
over the years , i have read the number and who they were and the crimes committed , but cant remember where i read
it. I think someone actually re-applied for it after having it forfeited and did get it back. hope this helps.
cheers 90th.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10131
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: v.c forfeiture"s   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 2:02 am

hi john.
Found this , hope this helps.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

cheers 90th.
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garywilson1

garywilson1

Posts : 374
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 58
Location : Timisoara , Romania

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 6:33 am

Can you beleive that you can forfeit the VC for theft of a cow or some oats ?

The view of the king in the link posted by 90th makes it clear what his thoughts were .
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90th

90th

Posts : 10131
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: victoria cross warrant   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 6:39 am

hi john.
The following is from the VICTORIA CROSS WARRANT. There are 15 guides and rules.
Fifteenthly ; In order to make such additional provisions as shall effectually preserve this most honourable
distinction , it is ordained , that if any person on whom such distinction shall be conferred be convicted of
treason , cowardice , felony , or any other infamous crime, or if he be accused of any such offence and doth
not after a reasonable time surrender himself to be tried for the same , his name shall forthwith be erased
from the registry of individuals upon whom the said decoration shall have been conferred by an especial
warrant under our royal sign manual , and the pension conferred under rule 14 shall cease and determine
from the date of such warrant . It is hereby further declared that we , our heirs and successors , shall be
the sole judges of the circumstances demanding such expulsion, moreover , we shall at times have the power
to restore such persons as may at any time have been expelled , both to the enjoyment of the decoration and
pension. Given at the court at Buckingham Palace, this twenty- ninth day of january , in the nineteenth year
of our reign , and in the year of our lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty -six.
By Her Majesty"s Command.

This following passage is from A STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT IN THE ZULU AND SEKUKUNI CAMPAIGNS
1878-1879 . 80TH REGIMENT OF FOOT by ROBERT HOPE.

When the V.C was originally awarded for those below commissioned rank , a pension of 10 PDS per annum
for life went with it , and a further 5.00 PD for any subsequent " BAR". In certain situations the pension was
increased dependent on circumstances . Throughout the years the " pension" has been reviewed and incresed
periodically . Should a recipient of the VC be found guilty of treason, cowardice , felony or any other infamous
crime , the medal and pension can be confiscated and the name of the recipient be removed from the register of
the award . Unfortunately on occasions this has happened for it is recorded that eight medals were withdrawn
and the names struck off the register during the period 1863 - 1908. However , this practice ceased after the
first world war following comments made by KING GEORGE V, and all the names were re-instated on the medal
list . In theory the medal and pension can still be confiscated.
cheers 90th.
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old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1096
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

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PostSubject: Re: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 6:58 pm

Under the terms of the original Warrant there was an expulsion clause that allowed for a recipient's name to be erased from the official Register in certain wholly discreditable circumstances. HM King George V had expressed his strong disapproval of the practice of forfeiture, however the amending Warrant of 1920 still contained the relevant clause. A later amending Warrant published in 1931 gave the Sovereign the new power to annul any forfeiture and restore both the award and pension. Although there are eight instances of forfeiture, the names of these men continue to be included in both official and unofficial lists of recipients.
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ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 3950
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 7:20 pm

"The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even where a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the gallows".

I agree.
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ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 3950
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 8:07 pm

I was just wondering what other member’s opinions were with reference to the auctioning of VCs to private collectors. After the recipient is deceased

Do you think this is right, or should it be given to the regiment of whom the soldier belonged to at the time of award?
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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

A Victoria Cross holder. Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Victoria Cross holder.   A Victoria Cross holder. EmptySun Oct 04, 2009 3:17 am

Hi Admin,

I think the descendants of VC holder ,should only sell if that particular line of family falls on hard times. But obviously the honourable thing to do would be to pass it back to the regimental museum.
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