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 Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty

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Tim Needham

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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Dec 28, 2022 10:16 pm

Hello all,

I've come across a number of discrepancies regarding Trooper Borain (Natal Carbineers, killed at Isandlwana) and wondered if anyone knows what his first name was, Charles or Harry?

A handful of memorials in South Africa (including the NC one on the battlefield) list his initial as 'C', and a number of genealogy sites name him as Charles, son of Valentine Borain & Elizabeth - as does the publication 'The Borain Family' by Adrian Ferramosca.

However, I've also found references to his name being 'Harry' in Terry Sole's 'For God, Queen & Colony', and also in a death notice in The Natal Witness dated 13 Feb 1879, however here he is stated to be the son of Mr G Borain of Cape Town (which contradicts the family information given in the previous sources).

Tavender's Casualty Roll, John Young's 'They Fell Like Stones' & Dutton's Medal Roll name the casualty variously as 'G Borrain' or 'G Borraine' - possibly mis-transcriptions from the original rolls?

As ever, if anyone is able to clear up these details I'd be interested to hear!

Regards,

Tim
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Eddie




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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 2:09 am

Hi Tim

Wikitree

I could only find the same as you, and it names him as Charles:

Born: Charles Borain SEP 1862 Pietermaritzburg,Natal, SA.
Died 22nd January 1879, age:16, Isandlwana,
Parents: Valentine Borain and Elizabeth Goldsmid(Phillips) Hyam
Siblings:
George
James
Joseph Edward
William Richard
John Valentine
Henry
Mary
Elizabeth Rebecca

Regards
Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 9:59 am

I found several errors in Terry Sole's book not to say he got this one wrong, only 16 that would make him one of the youngest.
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 11:41 am

Tim,

They Fell Like Stones needs an overhaul. In the past thirty years research and research facilities have improved somewhat. I’ll put it on my never diminishing to do list.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 12:03 pm

17 Trpr. Charles Borain and, yes, one of several youngsters aged 16.
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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 12:21 am

Thanks for your replies.

Athough the evidence seems to suggest that he was indeed 'Charles', I'm intrigued by the Death Notice in The Natal Witness which was presumably included by a relative & names him as Harry; perhaps he was known by this name amongst his family?

The other conundrum in this notice is his father being named as Mr G Borain of Cape Town, when all other sources name his father as Valentine Borain of Durban.

Terry Sole's book does indicate a possible connection to Cape Town, stating that relatives could not be traced after the battle, but that Borain was believed to have come from Cape Colony.

A few years ago I managed to trace Valentine Borain's burial to the West Street Cemetery in Durban (he died June 1878), and I was hoping to track down the grave itself in order to see whether the headstone - if there is one - mentions Charles'/Harry's death at Isandlwana. Unfortunately I've not been able to get any further with this, as I don't have any contacts in Durban who may be able to help - however, it would be interesting to see if there is a gravestone which might just clear this up!

Regards,

Tim


Last edited by Tim Needham on Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 1:57 am

Hi Tim/All

I may have found the answer, Charles had a grandfather and uncle named George.

Grandfather: George Adam Borain, born 1794, died 1868, Pine Terrace, Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, SA. He married Rebecca Bennet 1798 - 1868.

Uncle: George Bennett Borain, (son of the above) born 26th Feb 1819, Canterbury, Kent, England, died 27th Feb 1882, Cape Town, Western Cape, SA. (This G Borain listed as father by Tim is actually the father of Henry mentioned below, and not the father of Charles).

Aunt's & Uncles:
Mary Borain 1830-1873
George Bennett Borain 1819-1882
John Bennett Borain 1838-1870
Barbara Borain 1832-1856
Austin Borain 1835-1902

Here is an oddity
Ancestry.com, also lists uncle George's son, Henry Borain, born 25 Sept 1852 as dying in 1879 also, but doesn't say where. An "e" also added to Henry's surname, "Boraine"
I wonder if this is just a coincidence or could both have served and died in different battles.

Tim I wonder if this is where the confusion has come from and Harry has been mistaken for Henry.

Hope this don't confuse things to much Eddie.


Last edited by Eddie on Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:55 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Add more information)
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Tim Needham

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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 9:44 pm

Eddie,

Many thanks, this certainly does throw up further questions! The death notice from The Natal Witness may well have been mis-transcribed and originally mentioned 'Mr G Borain of Cape Town' as an uncle, but without seeing the printed copy it's hard to say.

With regard to Henry who also died in 1879, I think a little more research needs to be done.....

Regards,

Tim

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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 10:07 pm

Tim & Eddie,

A search of the old database for the PMB Archives reveals the following request dating from 1882 (Not me shouting by-the-way, but how the text appears.):

SOURCE    CSO    
REFERENCE 1882/366  

GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CARBINEERS.

Just throw another cat amongst the pigeons, The Natal Carbineers 1855-1911 by The Reverend John Stalker M.A. lists him as Trp. W. Borain.

JY
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 11:03 pm

John
This then would seem to indicate that it was Henry ('Harry') kia at Isandhlwana!!
Since he was born 25.9.1852 Henry would have been 16 years old when he was killed.
A grain of truth in the story.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 11:44 pm

Hi Julian

Henry born 1852 would have been 27, not 16.
Charles born 1862 would have been 16

I have checked Charles details on Ancestry and he is definitely listed as died at Isandlwana.There is nothing against Henry's
name for place of death, seems very odd.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:01 am

John/All

Charles had a brother, William Richard Borain born 1857, if he did serve along side Charles and cousin Henry then, he survived as he died Oct 1926.

For information: Henry's mother was Marion Browne, Swelletam, Western Cape, S.A
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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:31 am

Tim/Julian/John

Littlehands post Feb 3rd 2011, 11:02pm " South Africa 1877 - 1879 Total Casualty Roll lists two Boraine that died at Isandlwana:

Corporal Borain (only one "r" ) Port Elizabeth volunteer horse
Trooper Borrain G Natal Cabineers.

G for The Trooper seems odd, but that's the way it is listed.It is likely the Corporal could be Charles and the Trooper to be Henry?

Eddie
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 9:22 am

Eddie
Sorry about the maths. Posting late at night is never very good. Heigh ho.
There were not 2 Borains at Isandhlwana. There was only one. 22 dead at the battle - all accounted for - 21 buried, one never found/identified.
22 names on the PMB war memorial and they include Trpr. C. Borain.
The mystery continues. Henry or Charles?
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 10:14 am

Eddie, all,

Yes, both Dutton's Medal Roll & Tavender's Casualty Roll list a Corporal Borain as having died at Isandlwana under the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse - the former publication does offer an initial of 'H', and that he was entitled to the medal with 1877--8-9 clasp (which was 'returned').

Perhaps Borain previously served with the PEVH before joining the Carbineers, creating a duplication on the medal rolls (although Trooper Borain listed under the NC appeared to only be entitled to the 1879 clasp).

I'll try to look into obtaining a copy of the correspondence in the PMB Archives found by John, as this may give some further clues - either way there certainly do appear to be some glaring discrepancies regarding whether Borain was a 'C', an 'H' or a 'G', and which family he came from!

Thanks for your collective interest so far!

Regards,

Tim
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 11:57 am

Hi All

I should imagine that the true identity of the soldier at Isandlwana is Charles as stated by Ancestry.com.
I would think that a family member would have entered the details correctly and as indicated there is no indication that Henry died at Isandlwana, there is nothing against his name, only the date of death.
It seems strange that there were only one Borain at Isandlwana, when the uncle of Charles collected Henry's possessions. It either suggests that there has been an omission in the roll or Henry died elsewhere. Going by evidence so far we know he died 1879, and that his father claimed for his horse and belongings, but medals returned for an "H" Borain is also odd.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:06 pm

Eddie
It wasn't Henry's possessions (horse & kit) that were collected. Looking at John's post above the name of the deceased is not mentioned, just the collector's name is as below:
SOURCE CSO
REFERENCE 1882/366

GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CARBINEERS.
For the record I agree with you that Charles is the more likely candidate for the kia.
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:17 pm

It was in fact Charles Borain who was killed at Isandhlwana at the age of 16 (he was born in September 1862) and not his brother Henry (Spencer, Shelagh O., British Settlers in Natal 1824-1857 – A Biographical Register, [Pietermaritzburg, 1986], vol. 3) which information has been confirmed to me by his descendants.
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Eddie




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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:52 pm

Hi Julian

Yes Charles had a brother called Henry, in addition to his cousin Henry, son of George.

Quote:  " GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CABINEERS."

Looking at that entry, is he collecting the belongings of his son (Henry) as stated, or is he collecting the belongings of Charles his nephew.. as we know Charles's father Valentine died in 1878.
It could be, he is collecting for Charles in the absence of Valentine, his father.

This suggests to me that there has been a mix up over George very early in publications, and that quite possibly Henry, his son, mistaken for Charles. Henry most probably dying of other courses, and the date of death a coincidence.
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 1:28 pm

Hi All

Just for information:

George Bennett Borain and Valentine Borain were brothers, here are a list of their children and dates of birth and death:

GEORGE BENNETT BORAIN 1819-1882, Children:

Margaret Mary Ann 1849-1923
George Bennett Luck 1857-1903
William Charles 1864-1936
HENRY (1852-1879)*
Emily Ann 1863-1926
John James 1848-1926

VALENTINE BORAIN 1824-1878, Children:

James 1864-1922
Charles (1862-1879), KIA Isandlwana*
John Valentine 1849-1894
George 1853-1886
William Richard 1857-1926
HENRY (1859-1937)*
Mary 1851-1905
Joseph Edward 1867-1943

GRANDFATHER: GEORGE ADAM BORAIN 1794-1868, as listed above.

Just for reference.

Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add text)
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John Young

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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 1:52 pm

Where I found it as G. rather than C.

Further Affairs of South Africa - British Parliamentary Papers

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(John Young Collection)

Note the list is not without other errors.

JY
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Eddie




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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 2:12 pm

Hi All

The casualty list at "www.northeastmedals.co.ok" also list him as "G" Borain. This must be an error when transferring data to the list.
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Tim/ all

I have also been able to make contact with Adrian Ferramosca a descendant from his mother's side, as have you. From our Conversation I think we can confirm that Henry/Harry are one and the same person.
Adrian, in his post says he is inclined to believe that both took part in the battle, but he is investigating further and has indicated he may join this site.

Eddie
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 8:11 pm

Hi all

As we suspected it was only Charles Borain that died at Isandlwana.
Adrian Ferramosca has said it was he who entered the date of 1879 against Henry's name on Ancestry after reading it in the Natal article mentioned.
So I think case closed, except, we know not when Henry actual died.
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 10:25 pm

I think it can be stated with certainty that Henry was not in the NC and did not fight in any military corps at Isandhlwana.
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90th

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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trpr Borain NC KIA Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:10 am

Hi All
Been away so trying to catch up , read all the Borain posts quickly as I've done with all the others ! , I notice in Stalker... Borain has the initial W !!.
90th scratch
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:16 am

90th,

Doing your impression of L/Cpl. Jack Jones again…

See my previous of 31/12/2022, let me know when your land legs return!

JY Joker Joker Joker
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90th

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PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:49 am

Hi JY
I knew I read the posts to quickly ! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy . Thanks for reign in HAHAHAHAHAHA
90th Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 10:51 am

Once the computer screen stops rolling from side to side things will be a little easier. Joker Joker
Good to have you back 90th
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PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 11:53 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks Kate Very Happy
90th
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Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Jan 21, 2023 10:09 am

90th
Just get back myself and can start 'living' again. Welcome back 90th.
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PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Jan 27, 2023 1:26 pm

Cheers Julian.
90th Salute
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