Boers at Rorke's drift?

Subject: Boers at Rorke's drift? Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:02 am

Looking closely at the painting of Lady Elizabeth T. Butler I see, on the front row, a man with beard in civilian clothing calling out. He has no bayonet on his rifle and looks very much like a civilian boer. Were there any boers at Rorke's drift who took a prominent role in the battle or who were dressed like that?

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:15 pm

Stefaan,

I contend the figure is meant to depict either Acting-Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton V.C., or possibly the civilian ferryman Mr. A. Daniells.

So no, he is not a Boer.

JY

Subject: Looks indeed like Dalton Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:52 pm

John Young wrote:: Stefaan,

I contend the figure is meant to depict either Acting-Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton V.C., or possibly the civilian ferryman Mr. A. Daniells.

So no, he is not a Boer.

JY

Having seen a picture of Dalton with full beard, i can certainly agree he looks very much like him. No idea what Daniells looked like.

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:07 pm

According to Lady Butler's notes and preliminary sketches the figure centre stage with his arm flung out is Dalton.
The man shouting could be Daniels or perhaps one of the NNC without a uniform.

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:13 pm

Julian,

According to my notes that is Storekeeper Louis Byrne, who died giving water to a wounded N.N.C. non-commissioned officer. I have seen the figure misidentified as James Langley Dalton by at least three authors. I believe one of the Wilkinson-Latham first made the misidentification, and the two authors who co-authored the N.A.M. book on Lady Butler compounded it.

JY

Subject: Boers at RD Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:15 am

Yes JY you beat me to it... it's certainly Louis Byrne who was in the act of giving Corporal Scammel a drink , as he did so he was shot dead .
90th

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:27 am

I'm aware of the previous misidentification but in the picture another man is giving Scammell a drink and next to them is the man with the outstretched arm who in the act of being shot, drops a revolver.
Would Byrne have been issued with a revolver?
The picture is not portraying the actual event as it occurred. The question is who did Lady Butler intend that figure to portray, not who did what in reality?

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:24 am

Julian,

Look at the left hand of the shot man, it is holding the cup to Scammell. The man kneeling behind Scammell is Surgeon James Henry Reynolds V.C.

Why shouldn’t Byrne have had a revolver? He was a civilian volunteer from the Natal Civil Service, and could in my opinion please himself.

Look at the shouting man and then look at de Neuville’s version of Dalton, they appear to my untrained eye to have a marked similarity.

JY

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:34 pm

John
I give you that he is holding a cup in his left hand. That doesn't alter my earlier question about who did Lady Butler THINK she was depicting with that figure.
Dalton is definitely in the picture because he was so named.
Let's assume you are right and that LB painted the shot figure as Byrne and the shouting man as Dalton. Doesn't it seem strange that she would give the former a uniform with revolver and the latter civilian dress with a rifle and colonist's hat?
Is it not possible that LB got her info about who did what confused? I know she used the 24th participants as models because it says so in numerous newspaper reports of the time (I used these for my Pte. David Jenkins essay) but I can't find anywhere that she used Dalton himself as a model (I am still looking).

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:00 pm

Julian,

Until he was wounded what weapon was Dalton using? - A Martini-Henry rifle. Dalton was a civilian with an acting rank in the Commissariat & Transport Department, so why not depict him in civilian dress? I doubt very much he was wearing a blue patrol jacket and trousers of the C. & T. D., as depicted by more recent artists.

I can only presume Lady Butler worked from the available photographs of Dalton, those that were also used as engravings in the illustrated newspapers which certainly looks like the shouting man. Louis Byrne was a much younger moustached man just like the shot man, and is that a uniform? Or is is just something a young man around Durban would wear when off for an adventure?

JY

Subject: Re: Boers at Rorke's drift? Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:26 pm

Points taken.
I have to admit that I originally thought as you've outlined but since the subject came up, and looking at it again, I began to doubt. The more I doubted, the more the uncertainties grew in my mind.
At the end of the day, the picture is just a pictorial representation of whatever was in LB's mind. I'm sure you are right, after all.

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