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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"

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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyThu Mar 10, 2011 12:57 pm


Hello everybody,

I have bought, Toby GIESE book's, "The men of the 24th" (1987).
I am very surprised by the photos of:
-p.20: Francis F. WHITE,
-p.21 James PULLEN (2nd photo)
-p.44 Charles d'A. POPE
-p.26 George FR.J. HODSON

Do these photos really show these officers? (no error? / example: error on the identity of Cavaye and Porteous, photo p. 33 with Degacher).

Thanks for your help.

Regards

YMOB
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90th

90th

Posts : 10089
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Toby Giese . '' Men Of The 24th ''    Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyFri Mar 11, 2011 12:19 am

Hi ymob..
The South African Campaign Of 1879 by J.P Mackinnon and S.H. Shadbolt has photographs of the 62 officers killed in the
zulu war . This also has summaries of the Army and Naval Brigades throughout the war . My copy is nearly 400 pages .
I will send you a link for this book and another which has many photographs . Hope this helps . Not sure if they will be
printed in French ! Idea .
cheers 90th. Wink
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyFri Mar 11, 2011 1:23 pm

90th wrote:
Hi ymob..
The South African Campaign Of 1879 by J.P Mackinnon and S.H. Shadbolt has photographs of the 62 officers killed in the
zulu war . This also has summaries of the Army and Naval Brigades throughout the war . My copy is nearly 400 pages .
I will send you a link for this book and another which has many photographs . Hope this helps . Not sure if they will be
printed in French ! Idea .
cheers 90th. Wink


Hello 90th

Thanks for your help.
(smile) Only one book on the zulu war is printing in french (D. CLAMMER)!
So, since one year, i learn english!!!!
I have already in my collection all the photos of the IMPERIAL officers present at Isandlwana.
I am just surprising by those of WHITE, PULLEN, POPE (maybe HOSDON) in the book of GIESE (very different those in others books on the subject).
I estimate your invaluable information (for the book "the south...of 1879").
I have already bought (and read) the other...not at the same price!!!

Regard

YMOB

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90th

90th

Posts : 10089
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Toby Giese . '' Men Of The 24th ''    Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyFri Mar 11, 2011 1:30 pm

Hi ymob.
I'm happy I was some help to you .
cheers 90th . Idea
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Tobyy Giese: a question for John YOUNG, Isundula and others   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyWed Oct 23, 2013 9:24 am

ymob wrote:

Hello everybody,

I have bought, Toby GIESE book's, "The men of the 24th" (1987).
I am very surprised by the photos of:
-p.20: Francis F. WHITE,
-p.21 James PULLEN (2nd photo)
-p.44 Charles d'A. POPE
-p.26 George FR.J. HODSON

Do these photos really show these officers? (no error? / example: error on the identity of Cavaye and Porteous, photo p. 33 with Degacher).

Thanks for your help.

Regards

YMOB
Hello,
I have asked this question before the arrival on this forum of "specialists" as John Young, Isundula or Julian Whybra.
I know Mister John Young had purchased a copy of this book... for 4£ (from memory).Very Happy 
Maybe, one of them could answer to the question?
Thanks.
Frédéric
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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyWed Oct 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Bonjour ymob. yes its a funny little book
is it not, written by an american i believe,
you cannot fault his enthusiasm..but i
understand your query's.p20 looks more
like Cavaye to me,the second Pullen p 21,
maybe Bloomfield, not sure but i have seen
that face before. p 44 looks like charlie
pope, p26. i dont recal that face,you
will get your answers soon, there is sure
to be some one to put us straight. as i
said this book is a little gem of an oddity.
cheers xhosa
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2099
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Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyWed Oct 23, 2013 6:04 pm

Frédéric,

Yes all four of those are correct.

Although I agree there are some very strange captions in The Men of the 24th, that are far from correct.

Page 33 is a classic: 'A' is Lt. F. P. Porteous; 'B' is Lt. C. W. Cavaye & 'C' is Captain W. Degacher.

Page 11 Pulleine has become Bromhead, blame Michael Barthorp for that one, it appears in the early editions of his Pictorial History.

To me Toby Giese's work is a curiosity, and one that should not be relied on without cross-referencing.

Regards,

JY

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ymob

ymob

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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyWed Oct 23, 2013 8:41 pm

John Young wrote:
Frédéric,

Yes all four of those are correct.

Although I agree there are some very strange captions in The Men of the 24th, that are far from correct.

Page 33 is a classic: 'A' is Lt. F. P. Porteous; 'B' is Lt. C. W. Cavaye & 'C' is Captain W. Degacher.

Page 11 Pulleine has become Bromhead, blame Michael Barthorp for that one, it appears in the early editions of his Pictorial History.

To me Toby Giese's work is a curiosity, and one that should not be relied on without cross-referencing.

Regards,

JY

Bonsoir Mister Young and Xhosa,
Great!!!!
Many thanks for your help.
I am really very happy for the correct identification of these photos of Pullen, Pope,White and Hodson that i have never seen in other book.
(I have one hundred books on the zulu war and these photos are only in this book!)
I dont understand why it's often the same photos in the books....
Mister Young... i have a dream ( sorry mister Luther King), a book of photos on the AZW in association with Isundula...
Encore merci.
Bien à vous.
Frédéric
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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyWed Oct 23, 2013 9:06 pm

Thanks frederic/JY, frederic,as JY
knows i share the same dream as
you. xhosa
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Julian Whybra



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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 5:47 pm

JY has been far more polite than I would have been. Giese's book is very poor in terms of reliability and content. It is also heavily reliant on Morris's book and consequently very out-of-date.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 6:05 pm

But you would have been more polite, If it had been heavily reliant on Jackson's book.
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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 6:27 pm

agree with JW re. content, but as
a book collector its quirky and odd,
and so thin it takes no room.
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Keithchr



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Location : Surrey, UK

Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptySun Oct 27, 2013 11:44 pm

I met Ian Knight a few years ago at a VMS event, not long after this book had been published. I recall that he said something to the effect that
the author said that he had some dreams which allowed him to name these soldiers where everyone else had failed. If my memory serves me
correctly, he had named every soldier appearing in a famous after the battle photo of the 24th regiment. Mr Knight said that this was pure fantasy.

For this reason, I did not add this one to my plethora of books on the subject!
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Frank Allewell

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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 9:15 am

CTSG
Suspect 

play nice
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Julian Whybra



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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 11:09 am

CTSG
Because Jackson annotates every source he uses and does not identify a 24th letter-writer complaining he can't get hold of any tobacco with a 24th soldier in a photo on the basis that he's smoking a pipe.
That's fairly typical.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" Empty
PostSubject: Re: Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th"   Toby GIESE:"the men of the 24th" EmptyMon Oct 28, 2013 3:19 pm

springbok9 wrote:
CTSG
Suspect 

play nice
agree  Rolling Eyes  No
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