Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. 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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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+356pdr aussie inkosi John Young ymob DrummerBoy 16 kwajimu1879 Commander Howse Ulundi rusteze garywilson1 Aidan sas1 Ray63 thinredlineMOD barry Mr Greaves Saul David 1879 John warrior3 Frank Allewell 90th Chard1879 Mr M. Cooper impi Drummer Boy 14 Chelmsfordthescapegoat tasker224 Eric old historian2 dlancast durnfordthescapegoat littlehand Dave 24th ADMIN 39 posters | |
Author | Message |
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rusteze
![rusteze](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/134-77.png)
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 5:11 pm | |
| Fred
You are quite right. The letter of 1 November 1879 from Mansel to Durnford is in Keith Smith's book on page 93. It refers to a number of notations on Mansel's map which must therefore have accompanied the letter. Those notations correspond to the KCAL map numbering reproduced by Ron Lock, so at some point after receipt Durnford must have changed the numbering system (I guess to include the point at which Durnford's Horse was attacked by the Zulu left horn) for publication in the Colenso Durnford 2nd edition. How did all this end up in the Wood papers in KZN I wonder?
Steve |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 5:59 pm | |
| Fred I knew I had a copy of the hand-drawn original of Mansel's drawing. In finding it just now I'd forgotten that it formed part of a letter from Mansel to Durnford. (I obtained it in 1993 so it was in a dusty old file - I have a good excuse for having forgotten the accompanying letter). It is dated 1.11.79. In it he says "I have sent you a small drawing of Isandhlwana with the particular places numbered. It is an exact representation of the place and gives you a very fair idea of it." |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | xhosa2000
![xhosa2000](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2147-96.jpg)
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 7:34 pm | |
| I knew I had a copy of the hand-drawn original of Mansel's drawing.....
Nice one Julian. it would be cool if you would post it. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 8:18 pm | |
| - rusteze wrote:
- Fred
You are quite right. The letter of 1 November 1879 from Mansel to Durnford is in Keith Smith's book on page 93. It refers to a number of notations on Mansel's map which must therefore have accompanied the letter. Those notations correspond to the KCAL map numbering reproduced by Ron Lock, so at some point after receipt Durnford must have changed the numbering system (I guess to include the point at which Durnford's Horse was attacked by the Zulu left horn) for publication in the Colenso Durnford 2nd edition. How did all this end up in the Wood papers in KZN I wonder?
Steve Steve, Fine! The substancial part of your "little mystery" (I.E:Your own words) is now resolved. Well done, indeed! Amitié. Fred |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 8:45 pm | |
| Julian, Don't worry! 1°) My memory is also often faulty, 2°) I already knew the existence of the letter (mentioned by JY on this thread), 3°) I only asked you if you had seen the Mansel's map in the Durnford's papers at Chatham. I shall study a remark written by you on this thread about the vedettes ... Amitié Fred |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | rusteze
![rusteze](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/134-77.png)
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 8:58 pm | |
| Fred, with your help and Julians i think the little mystery is largely solved.
Here's another. Durnford includes an appendix in the 2nd edition "Lord Chelmsford's Statements compared with the Evidence" in which he refers to a Reconnaissance Sketch of Isandhlwana by Capt. Heneage RE. I don't seem to have a copy - does anyone else?
Steve Reinstadtler |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | xhosa2000
![xhosa2000](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2147-96.jpg)
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 9:17 pm | |
| |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 9:32 pm | |
| Steve, Thanks. Times of Natal 11th April 1879 Captain F. Heneage (RE) was appointed extra aide-de-camp to Major General Marshall, commanding Cavalry Brigade. Marshall, as you know was at the head of a burial party at Isandhlwana... Amitié Fred
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 9:39 pm | |
| Steve, Do you think that there is a possible link with the map published first in the RE journal and then in Shadbolt? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | rusteze
![rusteze](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/134-77.png)
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 9:47 pm | |
| Fred That's exactly what went through my mind! Steve |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ymob
![ymob](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/237-12.png)
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Tue May 22, 2018 9:57 pm | |
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Wed May 23, 2018 6:20 am | |
| Xhosa That is the Mansel's diagram - a little fainter then the original but that's it. And the printed words are identical to Mansel's hand-written original.
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | rusteze
![rusteze](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/134-77.png)
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
![The missing five hours. - Page 18 Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The missing five hours. Wed May 23, 2018 10:13 am | |
| Hmm - not quite. Where did the reference to Mansel producing it for Durnford's father come from? And the distance to the RB has become 2 1/2 miles not 3 1/2. But I agree the sketch is exactly the same.
Steve Reinstadtler |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | The missing five hours. | |
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