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 Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana

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old historian2

old historian2

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Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana Empty
PostSubject: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyFri Jun 19, 2009 11:43 pm

This is probably a stupid question.

But does anyone know, where Colour Sergeant keane would have been situated before the Zulu attack commenced. Would he have been in the staff area of the camp, along side Pulleine?

With reference to the spur that was found with the remains I take he would have had a horse. I not fully aware of the camp lay out ,and the location where Keane’s remains were found.

In the press release it states

“He was probably speared by a warrior in the part of the Zulu army which had snaked behind Isandlwana Mountain to trap the fugitives. His body was found alone which is unusual.'

So would he have been trying to escape via a route that none of the other fugitives took like Melvill and Coghill.

Extract from Interview with Mehlokazulu Kasihayo (The Battle Of Isandlwana)

“The two wings then fulfilled their objective at the upper part of the camp and those who were in the camp were trapped inside it and the main body of the Zulu army went to pursue and kill the soldiers. When the Zulu approached, the English continued to fire strongly up to the buffalo River. They were concentrated in the upper part of the camp and the fire was so intense that they were able to open up a large gap, such that the men on horseback were able to escape through the opening.”

Could Keane have been one of the men on horseback that escaped? But received a wound that was to prove fatal further on down the trail.
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Saul David 1879



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Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyFri Jun 19, 2009 11:58 pm

Old H.
The questions are far from stupid. Until you mentioned the spur, I had forgotten about it. I think it was mention in the first press release back in April.

I will think about some logical answers to your questions, but right now I’m off to bed. Had to many late nights this week.I guest we have discussed him after his death, good idea to discuss him before his death.

S.D
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jun 20, 2009 8:55 am

Old H. is there anything about Sgt Keane other than he was killed at Isandhlwana, Ever since his name comes to light. I can find nothing about him, apart from his, remains being found, and his name in the casualty figures at Isandhlwana. There is a possibility that he was under and alias naming, like many were in those days.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jun 20, 2009 9:36 am

That’s a good point John, Alias names need to be taken in to consideration, and I also have been looking for details on Keane. I have been looking at information regarding Crealock to see if he mentions Keane, but so far nothing. I would imagine he is mentioned somewhere, may in a survivors account. Does anyone know where he was before arriving at Isandlwana, When did he arrive in South Africa? That might be one for Petty Officer Tom. He may well have access to passenger lists from the troop ships.
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90th

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PostSubject: keane who !!!   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jun 20, 2009 12:08 pm

hi all.

like all of you chaps who have been looking for something on keane , i to have found nothing , i think the only way is to have him researched , but as i have posted earlier it is very expensive , not sure if 1879 GRAVES is a researcher, but he is our best hope .
cheers 90th.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jun 20, 2009 6:30 pm

Researching. Not as easy as it sounds especially, if alias names were used to enlist. I will be honest, I would not know where to start, and I should think it would be very time consuming. I keep trawling the net something might come up.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jun 20, 2009 10:38 pm

Old H.
I have been looking at some of the troops ships that brought the soldiers to SA. And guess what I cannot find, any Colour Sergeant Keane. Which is annoying. I have been hunting him down ever since this topic begun.
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Saul David 1879



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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyMon Jun 22, 2009 9:45 pm

I really think is going to be down to the DNA tests or with luck Peter Weedon tracking down Keanes campaign medal, my guest is Peter Weedon will come up with some relevant information, which will result in further information leading to descendents who will then hopefully give samples of their DNA.

S.D
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyMon Jun 22, 2009 11:44 pm

Not sure if this has any bearing on the matter.

A man without private means, the Staff Corps affords the most assured livelihood, although he must, from his own experience in the 24th and 72nd, have sympathized with the reluctance that most officers feel in severing themselves for life from regimental service with and command of their own fellow- countrymen. The system under which officers for the Staff Corps are now appointed direct from Sandhurst obviates some of the old difficulties. It has, however, always been felt that a few years' "licking into shape" in a British regiment was a very good training for the candidate for the Staff Corps.
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ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyWed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm

Colonel John Crealock, who was the only member of the General Staffto be killed at Isandhlwana and whose remains were recently discovered and identified
SOUTH AFRICA 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1879 (Staff Clerk M. C. Keane. Genl. Staff) pawnbroker’s marks in obverse fields, polished, otherwise nearly very fine and extremely rare £6000-8000 Colour-Sergeant M. C. Keane was killed in action at Isandhlwana on 22 January 1879. He was serving as Staff Clerk to Colonel John Crealock, Military Secretary to Lord Chelmsford, commanding the forces in Zululand, and was the only member of the General Staff to be killed at Isandhlwana. In 2009 his remains were supposedly discovered and identified by means of a General Staff Corps button found close to the skeleton. Archaeologists found it during excavations being carried out by Amafa, the heritage organisation responsible for the protection of the historic battlefield. Amafa spokesman Mr Konigkramer said the finding had helped historians build up a clear picture of what had happened to the young Colour-Sergeant during the bloody battle, in which 1,350 British troops were slaughtered by 22,000 Zulu warriors. Mr Konigkramer said: ‘Keane was not a front-line soldier and was likely one  of the last to abandon camp at Isandlwana when it was obvious the Zulu were overwhelming it. He was staff clerk to Colonel John Crealock, military secretary to Lord Chelmsford, commander of the British invasion of Zululand. He was probably on horseback which would explain his body being found some way down the Fugitives Trail along which survivors fled towards the uMzinyathi river and the safety of Natal. He was probably speared by a warrior in the part of the Zulu army which had snaked behind Isandlwana mountain to trap the fugitives. His body was found alone which is unusual.’ He added: ‘If the button had come from the uniform of a soldier of the 24th Regiment, he could never have been identified as hundreds of them died at Isandlwana and are among the 1,300 men
buried there."

John Young we know what part you played in the Button found. But on most social media sites they claim your the man that named Keane, who remains were found ? So you may as well take the credit.


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Frank Allewell

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Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 4:50 am

On the fugitives trail? My understanding is that he was found whilst digging the foundations for the reserve officials building?
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 7:52 am

Interesting phrase that: "his body was found alone"? Surely it should rather read: 'his was the only body found,not to say there could be many others undiscovered in the area as widespread excavation hasnt taken place.'
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySat Jan 16, 2021 3:57 pm

The media strikes again.
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ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana   Colour Sergeant keane  General Staff Corps. Isandhlwana EmptySun Jan 17, 2021 9:34 pm

Colour Sergeant keane General Staff Corps. Medal.
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