Save the Camp

Posts : 158 Join date : 2012-07-01

Pascal, Glynn would have been overkill to command a guard battalion, but he would have done better, to win, who knows, plus you take away the confusion of who should or is capable of command.

Commander Howse

Guest

LC thought as a battle, he left Pulleine in the camp...

He took his best officers with him!

"PTR" Joker

Posts : 158 Join date : 2012-07-01

Pascal, you are right the battle for LC was ahead of him, and He would be between the Zulu army and the camp. He knew that other detached Zulu infantry were out there. So He left a Battalion and a few others that were left because of guard duties to guard the camp. Pulleine was capable of fighting 5,000 Zulus, Unfortunately LC was wrong and he left the camp in the face of the entire enemy's main army and the was destroyed. A better officer could have saved the day, but we will never know.

Commander Howse

Posts : 420 Join date : 2011-05-14

6pdr.

6pdr wrote:: Perhaps you've forgotten Kiplings poem? Gatling guns could jam...

I believe that you are confusing your British poets.

It was Sir Henry Newbolt in the second verse of his poem Vitaï Lampada who wrote:

...The sand of the desert is sodden red —
Red with the wreck of a square that broke;
The Gatling's jammed and the Colonel dead,
And the Regiment blind with dust and smoke...

Rudyard Kipling did make a couple of recorded comments about the Gatling Gun, but to my knowledge made no mention of it jamming.

'Jimu

Subject: Re: Save the Camp Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:40 pm

ZULU WAR.
Southland Times , Putanga 3401, 15 Haratua 1879, Page 2[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC

kwajimu1879 wrote:

6pdr.

6pdr wrote:: Perhaps you've forgotten Kiplings poem? Gatling guns could jam...

I believe that you are confusing your British poets.

It was Sir Henry Newbolt in the second verse of his poem Vitaï Lampada who wrote:

...The sand of the desert is sodden red —
Red with the wreck of a square that broke;
The Gatling's jammed and the Colonel dead,
And the Regiment blind with dust and smoke...

Rudyard Kipling did make a couple of recorded comments about the Gatling Gun, but to my knowledge made no mention of it jamming.

'Jimu

Indeed, indeed...I stand corrected! That's EXACTLY the line I had in mind, but I was conflating it with Kipling's THE YOUNG BRITISH SOLDIER.

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier

My brain cells aren't what they used to be...and probably never were.

Guest

Pity that LC was not a poet ... Very Happy

Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC

Pascal MAHE wrote:: Pity that LC was not a poet ...

His #1, Crealock, was a very accomplished water colorist however.

Guest

Yes it is true but the best for me is W.Loyd, I make all my figures of 24 th, after his watercolors and it has nothing to do with the figures, which are sold commercially ... Very Happy

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

All watercolour sketches from whoever enables us to see, what they saw back then.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Hi Little hand,

it seems to me that this article contains many errors.
Durrant Scott was not shot close to the river
Willie London was not shot while making his way to the river
"Georges Shepstone was wounded and crept under somme dead bodies (...)" Indeed????

regard

YMOB

Guest

On the question of the uniform, it is no more realistic, on the actual appearance of the poor buggers of the 24 th in South Africa,that the watercolors of W.Loyd Very Happy

Subject: Re: Save the Camp Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am

Ymob
Frederik it looks as though it comes from a New Zealand Paper. No insult intended for any kiwi members.

Cheers

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

springbok9 wrote:: Ymob
Frederik it looks as though it comes from a New Zealand Paper. No insult intended for any kiwi members.

Cheers

Hi Springbok

Thanks.
I suppose..."rumour" not the "fact"! (Julian, where are you? / smile).
regard

frédéric

Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC

Pascal MAHE wrote:: Yes it is true but the best for me is W.Loyd

Have you seen the coffee table book of his work that David Rattray had a hand in publishing?

Guest

No, for my documentation, I recovered all over the internet. Wink

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

ymob wrote:: Hi Little hand,

it seems to me that this article contains many errors.
Durrant Scott was not shot close to the river
Willie London was not shot while making his way to the river
"Georges Shepstone was wounded and crept under somme dead bodies (...)" Indeed????

regard

YMOB

Where was "Durrant's" body found.

Can we confirm Stepstone didn't creep under bodies?

Subject: Re: Save the Camp Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:59 am

George Shepstones body was found on the West face of the mountain. There are no witnesses to his death and no comments on the poition he was found.

Cheers

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Thanks Springbok. Salute

I seriously think! that newspaper articals are dismissed far to quickly, about the goings on at Isandlwana.

Yet we believe the accounts, given at the court of enquiry put together by the one man, most of you blame for the diaster.

Posts : 3379 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Guest

Ah the old myth about suicide Durnford who comes up

Otherwise, no one thinks that the camp could be saved as soon as the attack began

Guest

Hi all

In fact almost any other British general, of this time, would certainly save the camp, where he was in the place of LC ...

Cheers

Pascal

Guest

In fact, the types remained in the camp were subjected to a series of incredible misfortune innéluctable, ect ... A sort of curse hanging over them ...

Because nothing happened on 22 and 23 January 1879 is normal, would not have happened under a different command, it would kind of twist of fate ...

Guest

Anyway relief could only come from the exterior because the defenders did not pouvaientt absolutely count on the military genius of Durnsford or Pulleine. Very Happy

- LOL -

Cheers

Pascal the Rascal

Guest

In fact it was all about timing, so I think ,that even the January 22, 1879, after the departure of LC , the massacre of Isandhlwana have been narrowly avoided ... Wink

Pascal

Subject: ave the camp Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi Rascal .
I doubt it , not enough Imperial troops to hold the camp . Let's not forget they didnt really have any orders in the way of fortifying or similar , it's a numbers game , not enough Imperial troops as against to many Zulu's , who were deployed in the best way to counter the Imperial troops firepower . Somehow I doubt you'll agree ? .
cheers 90th

Guest

Marsupial

I am studying all:

1 / The timing of all the troop movements of the 2nd and 3rd columns in this campaign of January 1879.
2 / The timing of the movements of all the messengers sent by officersin this campaign of January 1879.
3 / The reaction time of all officers who received orders or messages in this campaign of January 1879.

I think this way, I would make a clear idea of what was really possible, if someone had the will !

Cheers

Pascal

Guest

The January 22- 1879 , Lord Chelmsford had been spendind a frustating morning ...

Reaching Dartnell's force at about 6.30 he ordered it to find and attack the Zulu !!!

At 9.30 an orderly of the MP rode up to Clery and delivery Pulleine's message.Clery passed it straight to the General,who said :"There is nohing to be done on that." The ordely was asked a few questions and then dismissed.

Lord Chelmsford sent one of his A.D.C.s, Lieutenant Milne of the Navy, and Captain Symons to a neighbouring hill with some signallers to observe the camp, ten miles away, through telescopes.

They remainned there until about 11 o'clock ???

At 10 o'clock Chelmsford ordered the 1/3rd N.N.C. under Commandant Browne to march back to Isandhlwana,examinig the intervening ground but the rest of his force was ordered to assemble near the site of Dartnell's bivouac of the previous night ,with a view to forming a camp !!!

About 10.30 Clery sent back one of his assistants,Captain Gardner,with order to Pulleine to send out the tents and gear of the units concerned.

Several officers accompanied him to help with the arrangements,and an escort of ten MI went with them...

Lord Chelmsford rode on to fix a new camp site !!!

It was a warm, sunny day with a gentle,cooling breeze just stirring the grass...

The poor garrison of the camp of Isandhlwana, was alas ,permanently lost...

Cheers

Pascal

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