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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp

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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 51
Location : Down South.

Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2015 9:35 pm

Or !!!

"Extract from:
Ekowe, February 6, J 879.
DEAR LORD CHELMSFORD

"How very foolish of poor Durnford's detachment to scatter about so far from the camps."

(Signed) C. K. PEARSON.

Or !!
From the same report.

"About what number of Zulus did poor Durnford's party kill before they were overpowered and slaughtered ? "

And

"'Ld. Chelmsford said no doubt poor Col. Durnford had disobeyed orders, in leaving the camp as he did."
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptyThu Nov 19, 2015 3:45 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
Hi Frederic
I would say that Clery was an out and out Sandhurst professor. A soldier born as they say. His loyalty really showed itself when Chelmsford started to direct questions at Glynn and were very adroitly intercepted by him. And that in true military terms so selflessness or personal interest no, I would say professionalism. Try and get inside the head of the Victorian officer class, there were things that could be done and things that couldn't, even the things that couldn't were done if done with 'class.' look at the way Browns supper was 'stolen' but was replaced with a bottle or such. That was theft really and in the lower classes would have been punishable, but in the upper class not seen as such.
It was not on for Chelmsford to try and critisize Glynn, but it was fine for Clery ( same regiment old chap). Condone M and C for leaving the field ( part of the regiment ) but berate the bloody Irishman for doing the same.
Does that make sense for you?

Cheers

Bonjour Frank,
The Officers of the French army before the revolution of 1789 were composed almost exclusively of aristocrats.
In 1745, at the battle of Fontenoy, according to the popular tradition, a French officer, the "Comte" (I.E: noble title) d'Anterroches would have said to Lord Charles Hay (1st Battalion of Guards) "Monsieur les Anglais, tirez les premiers".
Such behavior from aristocrats may explain the success 44 yars later of the French revolution.... Very Happy
Cheers.
Frédéric
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptySun Nov 22, 2015 12:57 pm

Here is Clery's book on tactics which he wrote before the AZW. It is based on a series of lectures he delivered at Sandhurst and analyses a wide range of battles from Napoleonic, Franco Prussian and in the Khyber Pass. It also gives extensive guidance on formations for attack, defence and reconnoitring. I have copied one of the plans which bears a striking resemblance to the deployment at Isandhlwana (although for a larger force). Nevertheless it shows a distance of 2000 yards between the base formation and the advanced companies and picquets. That's well over a mile and is reminiscent of Pulleine/Durnford pushing companies forward.
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Steve
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
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Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptySun Nov 22, 2015 4:28 pm

Bonjour Steve,
Interesting...
Thank you for this comment.
Cheers.
Frédéric
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brillo1970



Posts : 12
Join date : 2016-01-05
Age : 72

Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 9:21 pm

Question to further my understanding for Frank Atwell or others: Frank, in your post on Nov. 12 (3:12 p.m.), you listed four elements used blame Durndord for the disaster: #3 - the wagons should have been laggered : my question - with the order to Pulleine "to defend the camp", would it have been standard procedure to lagger the wagons at that point (since LC chose not to lagger when camp was set)

and #4: troops left the camp: does this refer just to the troops under Durnford that he took with him in search of the Zulus or is it also meant to include the 1/24 companies sent up the saddle and positions to the front of the camp?

Also - just what troops did Durnford have with him when he left camp??

Thanks
Larry
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John

John

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Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 02, 2016 11:07 pm

"Also - just what troops did Durnford have with him when he left camp??"

Don't mentioned the Rocket Battery? They were with him, then they kind of wasn't ?
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Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp   Order to Pulleine from CLERY the 22 january about the defense of the camp - Page 3 Empty

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